nin and dnc buffs when?

[Shhikasan]

The other support classes actually do not. Every class took utility nerfs to make room for dancer.

Bards utility has gone down dramatically. And is now far less raid dps wise then dancer or ninja.

Machinist is on stormblood monk levels of support. With just 1 survivability buff. And no other support.

Dragoon no longer has piercing debuff (although it’s personal dps is too strong for its raid dps, I’m sure it will be nerfed tho in some reguards)

I have no idea about RDM not that they contributed to farm runs, so they maybe only used for progression again I don’t know.

Dancer and ninja are the two highest raid dps classes therefore their raid dps is lower. This is so it doesn’t become more effective to stack these classes instead of having a variety of classes present.

Dragoon I can understand

But how u believe machinist and bard offers the same raid dps gains as dancer or ninja is beyond me u guys are litteral 10% raid wide damage increases.

The entire raids burst phases revolve around you. Your the most important dps there. There’s always a cost there

dnc literally only effects one other player second person i've seen say raid wide dmg increase.
I LOVE HOW WE ARE HAVING THE SAME TALKING POINTS EVERY TIME A CLASS that does shit dmg HEY YOUR SUPPORT ACCEPT YOUR SHIT CLASS. heavensward MCH outside a small niche use they would of never been brought into raids only till later updates did they hold top dps which at this point was last few major updates of the heavensward. MCH in stormblood literally where class was dropped by even the best of players cause it literally brought nothing to a raid even a dmg boost against a boss for 25 seconds Physical only.

IM NOT ASKING FOR SAM OR BLM dmg just asking some middle ground with good players being reward not Good players being rewarded hey least your helping someone else do better easily.

and i don't know what is wrong with nin but they literally do like less dmg on avg then tanks i've seen in ex runs more so if they have to move a lot least with dnc they can always dmg nin really got shafted.

[HyoMinPark]

dnc literally only effects one other player

This is incorrect. Standard Finish affects one other player for the entirety of an encounter. Technical Finish affects your entire party—so 3 people in 4-mans and 7 people in 8-mans. Both buffs give +5% for the correct number of steps, so this raid damage gain needs to be factored into DNC’s overall damage. Balancing utility jobs is not solely done around their personal DPS but also their raid DPS.

I LOVE HOW WE ARE HAVING THE SAME TALKING POINTS EVERY TIME A CLASS that does [redacted] dmg HEY YOUR SUPPORT ACCEPT YOUR [redacted] CLASS.

We do not know what DNC’s damage is currently. The only numbers that have been circulating are simulations and some SSS numbers from Titania EX’s striking dummy. I explained above why the latter is not an accurate representation of the overall damage a support/utility job does.

Theorycrafters are currently trying to figure all of this stuff out. We’ll probably have rough estimates up until the release of Eden Savage, and then we’ll start getting more solid numbers from the groups that run it and do all the number crunching. Until then, all you really have to go on is feelycrafting—and that’s not adequate.

heavensward MCH outside a small niche use they would of never been brought into raids only till later updates did they hold top dps which at this point was last few major updates of the heavensward. MCH in stormblood literally where class was dropped by even the best of players cause it literally brought nothing to a raid even a dmg boost against a boss for 25 seconds Physical only.

HW MCH was actually better than BRD on release. It was heavily favored in physical DPS comps thanks to Hypercharge, while BRD was favored in comps that had casters thanks to Foe Requiem. The inevitable buff wars that ensued in attempts to balance the two jobs against one another broke the jobs to the point where they were dealing the highest personal damage of ALL DPS jobs.

SB MCH was still meta when one was going for parse runs. However, players didn’t play it
NOT due to its lack of or want for utility. They didn’t play it due to terrible design and terrible gameplay. Go to any Stormblood MCH thread on here or on Reddit, and you’ll see the same theme in all of them: the job was horrendous to play—clunky at higher latencies and skill speeds; players that didn’t have the best ping in the world were punished due to the nature of their Wildfire window and oGCDs like Rapid Fire.

IM NOT ASKING FOR SAM OR BLM dmg just asking some middle ground with good players being reward not Good players being rewarded hey least your helping someone else do better easily.

If DNC and NIN have decent raid contributions, they will be fine. NIN was one of the lowest in personal damage in SB—but it completely annihilated in raid contribution with Trick Attack alone. 1,000 rDPS in a single skill—I think the only other single raid buff that could compete with that was Balance, and only with RNG being heavily on the side of the AST and allowing for enough AOE Balances to meet that number. Add that to their personal damage, and that’s the overall rDPS they were doing. Low damage or not on their own, they were—and have always been—highly valued in groups that seek to optimize because of what they bring.

and i don't know what is wrong with nin but they literally do like less dmg on avg then tanks i've seen in ex runs more so if they have to move a lot least with dnc they can always dmg nin really got shafted.

What sort of data do you have backing this up? Do you have repeated logs of testing? Have you done extensive testing? Are you testing decent NINs, or are you just looking at NINs that are average at best and bad at worse? What does your evidence look like to back this up? Do you have any at all?

I'd Argue Dancers do need something stable though, entire kit working off 50% Chance prolly does cause some low parses down to bad luck, which will always feel negative.

It will depend. DNC could be fine even with the RNG aspect. After all, SB BRD was heavily RNG based for bursts, but they never wanted for their spot in the meta.