nin and dnc buffs when?

[Drayos]

dnc literally only effects one other player second person i've seen say raid wide dmg increase.
I LOVE HOW WE ARE HAVING THE SAME TALKING POINTS EVERY TIME A CLASS that does shit dmg HEY YOUR SUPPORT ACCEPT YOUR SHIT CLASS. heavensward MCH outside a small niche use they would of never been brought into raids only till later updates did they hold top dps which at this point was last few major updates of the heavensward. MCH in stormblood literally where class was dropped by even the best of players cause it literally brought nothing to a raid even a dmg boost against a boss for 25 seconds Physical only.

IM NOT ASKING FOR SAM OR BLM dmg just asking some middle ground with good players being reward not Good players being rewarded hey least your helping someone else do better easily.

and i don't know what is wrong with nin but they literally do like less dmg on avg then tanks i've seen in ex runs more so if they have to move a lot least with dnc they can always dmg nin really got shafted.

right to the first point EXAMPLE

If u do 10,000 DPS And Able to provide a Additional 2500 DPS to a BLM in group, while a Monk can only obtain 11,000 DPS without Any offensive Utility, you will bench that Monk. u dont seem to reliese the games balanced on your RAID DPS, not ur Personal DPS.. your measured by how much DPS you bring to a Raid through ur Kit, Personal DPS numbers Do not matter in FFXIV like they do in other games such as WoW, hence why they frowned on by the company.

2) my point was against you saying classes are Equal in utility.

how can you say a Machinist with nothing but a 10% Damage reduction, which cannot stack with your own (which means U have litterally the same buff) Equal?, Machinist has 0 Unique utility, It offers Nothing that a other class can do, the fact you feel ur personal DPS should be on par, Calls to me that you want to BENCH classes with your own.

you Dont seem to understand, that If u provide high personal DPS and one of the highest Raid DPS, u will replace 90% of the DPS Classes in this game. because u'll create a Meta where u should stack 2 Dancers and 2 BLMS. which FFXIV heavily trys to Not let happen.

FFXIV is balanced on 8 man Content, not 4 man, Which means the MORE damage u Add Raid Wide the less DPS you will personally do, its how the games Entirely Balanced Utility v Damage. U seem to have no actually looked anything up, because ALOT of Support was gutted in SHB Release, ontop of this bards Utility was heavily nerfed to make room for Dancers Utility.

your class was RELEASED under "SYNERGY" its Reported to be SEs attempt at a Real Support Job, They made it CLEAR from Fanfest they dont intend the Dancer to be a high DPSer but a jack of All Trades, holding Defensive Utility, Offensive Utility, Off-Heals and DPS. Its basically the answer to a RDM who wants to try ranged physical DPS. stop Complaning that Support DPS have Lower DPS then pure, because its Utility v Personal is what they balance around the concept is

Every DPS Should add the SAME DPS Raid wide. Which means the More buffs u give to another the Less DPS u can do, this is to round u out to for example

Dancer, 9.5k Personal DPS. 3k Raid DPS = 12,500 Raid DPS

bard 10k Personal. 2.5k Raid DPS = 12,500

Monk 12,500 Personal DPS. 0 Raid DPS = 12,500

Machinist 12,500 Personal DPS. 0 Raid DPS = 12,500.

That is the type of balancing that happens in FFXIV, thats how it Supports the idea of both Pure DPS and Support DPS being required in a Raid. its not people saying "accept your shit class" its People who understand that you'd actually Cause other jobs to be Benched with your Demands, you cant just say "i wanna be Mid Pack DPS".. because u'll become Top Pack raid DPS if that was to happen.. which would then become problematic as u'd Bench Pure DPS.

hence why Machinists lost ALL Their utility when reworked, because they took DPS buffs which Ment SE nerfed their Utility. Same with bard, it took Utility nerfs and got buffed DPS Wise.

Dancer is Mid Pack Raid DPS, if not Above Average Raid DPS. your personal Numbers Dont = ur place on a DPS List. Because your responsible for a few number of the Other DPS's DPS Total which is what u've brought. you have to take how much DPS you gave the other DPS then Add it to ur Personal DPS to find your Raid DPS.

So if u've given a BLM 2000 DPS, u add it to ur personal DPS level if your below a ninjas DPS then yeah you need buffing as Ninjas Should have a higher Raid DPS then Dancer atleast by glances. but you shouldnt be Equalling a Class which has less Raid DPS then you. because it can not Facilitate a Purpose if ur managing this.

they did this in SB, which SAM did less DPS then a Monk, It made Monk Meta because of this happening. All ur causing is.

U get Buffed by 2k DPS.

Machinist gets buffed by 3k DPS.

BLM is Buffed by 5k

so ur buffed another 1k

So they then buff everything above you again. because Personal DPS isnt balancable in a game where Some Jobs fit into Raids better then others.

your balanced on RDPS, which is what everyone talks about, Personal DPS is Never talked about, this isnt WoW it aint balanced like WoW, and yes im pressuming u are from WoW because I had the same mentality walking into this game and very quickly learnt a Class can be 5k Behind in Personal DPS yet bench the Class for himself because of the utility he Holds.

Ninjas were the Worst DPS in the game during SB yet the most demanded Job in the game. If that doesnt tell you enough about FFXIV Balancing Systems. i dont know what will realistically.. but calling "BUFF ME" based on a Personal DPS Score wont go far in FFXIV Community nor SEs team, because Personal DPS Meters are Banned, ur never ment to know your Numbers. So outing urself by saying this is making u liable to ban if anything. and Mentioning Dummy parses Proves even less because ur not taking account of Melee v Ranged Uptime on boss monsters.

people arent saying your a Suipport "deal with ur shit class" because Support classes are actually the strongest in Meta.

look at SB, Bards, Ninjas, Dragoons all in high demand Yet all Low Personal DPS. BLM and SAM being Super high DPS yet Denied from Raids, We Dont give a hell about Personal DPS, most raids look for what will give their Raid the most DPS not particularly your own, hence why its deemed easier to get into Raiding with a Support class then a Pure DPS, because u dont have to be as Skilled in a group to provide use to a Raid.

[SwarleyMcSwarls]

i'm just here to laugh at the post. carry on.

[Moxiesan]

i'm just here to laugh at the post. carry on.

No need to be toxic. Glad you moved on.

[gumas]

is nin and dnc that bad? i mean... it cant be that bad compare to mnk and ast right?

[HyoMinPark]

is nin and dnc that bad? i mean... it cant be that bad compare to mnk and ast right?

Apparently JP is saying that NIN feels really weak right now in personal damage (I don’t think they were talking about rDPS). I haven’t heard much else about it other than that because I don’t play melee, so I don’t follow how the melee are doing. With regards to DNC, I personally don’t feel that terribly weak when it comes to AOE or Single-Target, just based on what I have seen thus far and it’s more or less feelycrafting since I don’t have hard numbers (nor an optimal way/environment to get them).

But with regards to hard numbers, I don’t think it’s been entirely figured out yet what the collective rDPS of the job is yet. We will probably know more soon, now that people are doing EX—and we’ll know for certain when Savage comes out and we can judge how the job functions in there.

[Drayos]

Apparently JP is saying that NIN feels really weak right now in personal damage (I don’t think they were talking about rDPS). I haven’t heard much else about it other than that because I don’t play melee, so I don’t follow how the melee are doing. With regards to DNC, I personally don’t feel that terribly weak when it comes to AOE or Single-Target, just based on what I have seen thus far and it’s more or less feelycrafting since I don’t have hard numbers (nor an optimal way/environment to get them).

But with regards to hard numbers, I don’t think it’s been entirely figured out yet what the collective rDPS of the job is yet. We will probably know more soon, now that people are doing EX—and we’ll know for certain when Savage comes out and we can judge how the job functions in there.

Tbh min seems to be really low on dps. I see them barely outdpsing tanks and healers. They do seem to need buffing. It also appears Dragoon is considerably over performing its able to out dps SAMs.. as a utility class.

Where it prolly shouldn’t be quite that high, it’s utility isn’t that nerfed to class it as a pure dps.

Dancers seem to be able to do 8.5k sustained or atleast that’s what I see them roughly performing. Which isn’t bad considering I ain’t talking about raid geared.

It’s a leap above ninja dps I can that

[Arkenne]

Hrm...
I did notice that NIN got quite the nerf on the physical department due to the loss of Dripping Blades and the Slashing debuff, but I am not so sure that the low DPS output is the Job's fault... I've yet to fully lvl it tho.

After all NIN got quite a bit of game changing mechanics that, altho raised their bursting power, also added some chances of messing up big time. Some examples I've run into:

- Kassatsu having 2 charges even at lvl 50 is a game changer. And sometimes will use them right when Ninjutsu is about to come off CD (which is a waste)

- Mug extra Ninki makes it something you shouldn't use past the 60 points mark or you will lose some dps there (which can happen more often than not).

- TCJ having free usage also means Ninjutsu can be used up to 4 times in a row with a way to bunny 3 of them together. It feels bad...

- Meisui looks good on paper but its actually a DPS loss if used on a raw Suiton for the sake of Bhavakacra (and also you can accidentally overcap Ninki with it).

- Bunshin may have been nerfed even before launch on the Ninki generation, but even so, with Ninki requirement being stuck at 80, you get no more than a 2 GCDs window to use Bhava in, else you overcap, which is more DPS loss.

- Doubleweaving is almost mandatory.

- Clipping is their life.

- Is actually very easy to mess up and do Raiton instead of Hyosho on a Kassatsu due to muscle memory or Hyoton instead of Raiton due to overthinking.


Every single skill you get from 70 to 80 changes the NIN gameplay in some way that wouldn't surprise me not every NIN at 80 can handle instantly.

At least now there is no way to miss TA, with True North's change.

[Starflake]

To put it bluntly on the topic of Ninja. Yes, it feels quite weak, personal DPS wise. It's a very fun class to play but it is BY FAR the hardest and most punishing DPS class. There is so much micromanagement going on to play optimally in comparison to other classes, it seems like a very bad progression class to start. I honestly don't know what SE was thinking when they put Meisu in the game. To optimize that, you need to have planned quite a few things out as it seems that the general consensus is to make Bunshin line up with Trick Attack. I'm also not sure if they foresaw the amount of clipping we do now. I reckon we lose quite a lot of GCDs by weaving. Yes, we are still in fact gaining DPS with clipping as Raiton is better than Fuma and we just have to double weave in some Trick Attack windows for a bigger gain. But weaving as a ninja is also a loss overall to what could have been. I hope to see some changes soon.

Give us 5-10% dripping blade and let Fuma Kassatsu in its buffed variant instead of that Ice move.

[BigBossCL]

Ninja feels very weak for the effort put into playing it.

[BgoNz]

I like meisui its like a "oh shit" button if you accidentally casts a suiton also it allows you to waste a TCJ suiton to gain some ninki but you have to time it