Request: Could Lucid Dreaming's Enmity Drop be Re-implemented?

[Hash_Browns]

Ahh, I see the issue here. The tank isn't getting healed, and thus, can not hold aggro.

[TankHunter678]

Ahh, I see the issue here. The tank isn't getting healed, and thus, can not hold aggro.

More cases of the tank or healer failed positioning and got clobbered. Also times where the tank did not pop a defensive when they should have and got nuked or the healer was running low on MP, be it because DPS keep dying to mechanics and the Healer has to keep ressing them, the healer is undergeared and struggling with the damage intake, or the healer wound up over DPSing because at the time the damage intake was not enough and just saw a nasty spike. There is also cases where the Tank just plain got caught in too many AoEs dropped on them by panicking players scattering about in larger group content.

[Mistyregions]

More cases of the tank or healer failed positioning and got clobbered. Also times where the tank did not pop a defensive when they should have and got nuked or the healer was running low on MP, be it because DPS keep dying to mechanics and the Healer has to keep ressing them, the healer is undergeared and struggling with the damage intake, or the healer wound up over DPSing because at the time the damage intake was not enough and just saw a nasty spike. There is also cases where the Tank just plain got caught in too many AoEs dropped on them by panicking players scattering about in larger group content.

So what you are saying is the the game is more punishing for lack of player skill? The lack of tanking skills, healer MP management and lack of DPS avoidance?

So what your saying is the game punishes you more and you dont like it? Would you like the game to be easier?

[X89K1]

I was just thinking, since most DPS do not have access to sustained self healing, it would help their survival if they had an option besides spamming a macro saying they have aggro and hoping the healers/tanks notice.
If it would be too forgiving for them to have that option, okay, valid counter-argument.

[Mistyregions]

I was just thinking, since most DPS do not have access to sustained self healing, it would help their survival if they had an option besides spamming a macro saying they have aggro and hoping the healers/tanks notice.
If it would be too forgiving for them to have that option, okay, valid counter-argument.

What? There is no way a DPS can pull aggro off a tank if he has his stance on. And as far as self healing for dps, I mean dont get hit by mechanics and the healers are complaining about "over healing people" and "not enough to heal" then they can just heal. I don't know what your asking for here, the game punishes you harder for lack of skill, that's exactly what yoshi p said. That the jobs performce comes from player skill, you lack it and the game punishes you. So what do you want, it to be easier?

[TankHunter678]

So what you are saying is the the game is more punishing for lack of player skill? The lack of tanking skills, healer MP management and lack of DPS avoidance?

So what your saying is the game punishes you more and you dont like it? Would you like the game to be easier?

I am saying it is better to have the tools even if they are niche and not used often then to not have them and need them. Situations can and do happen because not everyone is perfect and on the same wavelength. There is a variance in skill levels and sometimes the boss just drops tons aoes that are unavoidable and placed by players. I've seen tanks do everything right and still die because of things outside of their control due to how people scatter trying to get away from other AoE's while converging their own with others.

[Mistyregions]

I am saying it is better to have the tools even if they are niche and not used often then to not have them and need them. Situations can and do happen because not everyone is perfect and on the same wavelength. There is a variance in skill levels and sometimes the boss just drops tons aoes that are unavoidable and placed by players. I've seen tanks do everything right and still die because of things outside of their control due to how people scatter trying to get away from other AoE's while converging their own with others.

Those tools make it easier, so that a hard no. I believe most can agree everything is already easy.

Second everyone needs to get on the same wavelength, this is a team sport not and individual competition. Communicate and figure out where to AOEs go and where to place them, that's just a corps component of the game.

We adapt to the game or we get punished by it, this is how the game is played. Take time to learn and discuss it with your party members, take time to learn and it will be easy.

[Shurrikhan]

{Provoke} {Please use it}

That works on one target per 40 seconds.

So what your saying is the game punishes you more and you dont like it? Would you like the game to be easier?

While I'd generally agree with your censure here, there is a difference between difficulty and punishment. One doesn't become more okay with the tank dying and a wipe becoming very likely just because rezzing the tank in an AoE fight is then utterly irrelevant in terms of tanking (save for one of n mobs). It's still basically the worst thing that can possibly happen save for healing being both necessary and impossible. Having the tank be an available part of salvaging an AoE fight by more than just his or her added dps isn't the end of the world -- it decreases punishment far, far more than it decreases difficulty.

At present, even with some 20x tank enmity, the loss of enmity-drops and mass-provoke means that they're merely going to be swatting at the remaining enemies while the bash away on the healer, which feels a bit... off.

[Kaylessa]

While I'd generally agree with your censure here, there is a difference between difficulty and punishment. One doesn't become more okay with the tank dying and a wipe becoming very likely just because rezzing the tank in an AoE fight is then utterly irrelevant in terms of tanking (save for one of n mobs). It's still basically the worst thing that can possibly happen save for healing being both necessary and impossible. Having the tank be an available part of salvaging an AoE fight by more than just his or her added dps isn't the end of the world -- it decreases punishment far, far more than it decreases difficulty.

At present, even with some 20x tank enmity, the loss of enmity-drops and mass-provoke means that they're merely going to be swatting at the remaining enemies while the bash away on the healer, which feels a bit... off.

But if the tank(s) died to a trash mob then a mistake happened. Because tanks shouldn't be dying in trash mobs. So why shouldn't there be some consequences for that?

[Shurrikhan]

But if the tank(s) died to a trash mob then a mistake happened. Because tanks shouldn't be dying in trash mobs. So why shouldn't there be some consequences for that?

There are consequences, chiefly that everyone will likely die within the time it takes to Swiftcast-Rez and heal up the tank.

I just don't see the tank being useless for lack of threat in the event that one has that time to resurrect and heal it to be a consequence which is vital, cohesive, or ultimately beneficial.

Is it a necessary change to allow for unlikely scenario B (can rez and ready the tank before everyone's dead anyways in an AoE fight) on the offchance of unlikely scenario A (somehow actually letting the tank die)? No. But, I'd consider it a more attractive state, as it otherwise allows for disproportionately less value from the tank being rezzed than any other role.