Please Square do not turn Lyna into Lyse 2.0

[JunseiKei]

But not all of them are good either, and given that she had first hand experience with said Tempered individuals and Lakshmi she would have a good idea that they would fall more on the Ifrit/Leviathan Tempered side than Ramuh. It's also made very clear by Ramuh that there is /no known way/ to save a tempered individual, a conversation Lyse was very much present for and that he couldn't stop the Sylphs from defending their perceived territory after they had been tempered. Had Lyse not been there with us for Lakshmi I could agree with your assessment, but she was there. She had first hand experience that Lakshmi is not like Ramuh and that her tempered are not peaceful if merely left alone - and that Lakshmi is very much keen on tempering outside of the Ananta. And the story also makes it very clear that most city-states do not tolerate Tempered to live, especially those from hostile primals. The Ifrit tempered you meet in the MSQ are all killed after that fight. Not a single one is spared because they CAN'T be. I think the only notable exception to this is Ga Bu, but he isn't a threat in his catatonic state and if I recall it's never implicitly said he was tempered. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, that part of the MSQ has been awhile for me.)


The reason I bring this up is because while the mistake might seem silly to hang over her head for a narrative that insists that Lyse makes mistakes and is learning something like that is /vital/. And frankly throughout the entirety of Stormblood nothing like that happens to her. Nothing that sticks at any rate beyond the five minutes it takes to even ponder the problem. Normally I wouldn't care, not everyone needs to follow in Alphinaud's footsteps and be defined by their mistakes and how they react to them. Not every character needs be cut from the same cloth. Except when everyone defending the character claims that she's learning from mistakes and the narrative is /telling/ us this without /showing/ us it in any way shape or form, then I will take issue with it. This was the perfect chance to actually SHOW what they were trying to do with Lyse and progress her character, but instead nothing is done with it and in the time we're gone to Doma she does all her growth off screen instead. It's bad writing for a character that frankly deserved better.

The situation is not as cut and dry as I perceive people think it is. Specifically in the case of Lyse, the Ananta and Sri Lakshmi. After besting the primal, Lyse and Shanti have a back and forth:

Lyse: You did it again. You saved them. I just wish I could've been more help...
Lyse: So...it looks like the Ananta did have a mountain of crystals after all.
Like every other tribe. Gods, we're all such slaves to our weaknesses...
Shanti: You! You ssslew our Missstresss! She was our hope, our sssalvation!
Is there no end to your cruelty!?
Lyse: Listen to me, please! I know that you're only trying to protect yourselves because you feel frightened and alone...
Lyse: But that's how we all feel, don't you see? If we could just turn to each other for help instead of the gods, I'm sure we could find a way to live in peace!
Lyse: Your crystals are important to you, aren't they? Reflections of your souls, right? Well, you shouldn't have to sacrifice something so precious to a primal...
Shanti: Who are you to quessstion our choice? You who fight without fear? We wish only to live in peace, and if thisss be the price we must pay, then ssso be it!
Lyse: I know there's nothing I can say to convince you. But I hope that one day you look back and see we only ever wanted the same thing.
Shanti: Begone, damn you! Ssspare me your hollow words and leave me to mourn.
Lyse: I'll go...but it doesn't mean I'm giving up.
Lyse: Gyr Abania is our home too, and one way or another, we're going to have to learn to live together.
Lyse: Come on. Alphinaud and Alisaie are waiting.

The context for Lyse at the meeting is laid there and why Lyse has a reason to pause and think maybe there is hope. She appealed to Shanti before the meeting. Lyse hoped she might have gotten through.

I just wish I could remember the cutscene for the actual meeting so I could what was actually being said. I'm not even sure if it was confirmed they were tempered, or if assumptions were made because Lakshmi was summoned and yes, tempering did happen. My main point with the beast tribes were the city-states believed all of the beastmen were tempered. It was made plain that not all were. Also, key words from Ramuh - no known way. Not it's impossible to cure them. Something similar was said to killing Ascians. Lyse has been sparing people like Fordola. People only wanted to kill Fordola, Raubahn included. Crimes committed in times of war are a highly grey area.

[guardin]

Why would you even assume that she'll have a similar role? She wasn't important enough to get a bio in the last live letter, and all we've seen of her is that she's a Viis dancer that killed a Sin Eater and later punched the ground. She's had as much of a presence as Feo Ul.

lyse is still better than adult minifillia and alisaie

[Daralii]

I personally liked Lyse, so I don't understand all the dislike towards her. But, to each there own.

However, I don't know who this "Lyna" person is. Could someone help? D=

A Viis dancer. You see her a couple times in the launch trailer.

In the case of Fordola, her story is wrapped up in a Tales from the Storm story. But yeah, we don’t see her in game after 4.1.

She didn't appear after in part because the JP fanbase apparently really hates her. It was mentioned in an interview a few months back.

[Insertcoins]

lyse is still better than adult minifillia and alisaie

Lyse is better because she has that awesome jacket. It's the BEST jacket in the game simply cause it doesn't have that stupid flap SE keeps trying to put on jackets like Squall's or the monk's AF for stormblood. Like WHY? It's like a turd hanging off the jacket ruining the designs. So Lyse's jacket is instantly the BEST. Tho I don't get the Mifillia hate. I feel like people hate on her simply for being an NPC.... like ALL of them make you run back and forth all thur ARR. So if anything hate ARR... but Mifillia wasn't posed to be a fighter anyway. She's a paper pusher. Least she knows her place unlike other NPCs who send you on a stupid goose chase for a party when they could've just told you the location of Titan. :/ NEVER letting that go.

[Edax]

She is collared and forced to fight against primals with that summoner squad as a punishment / sentence for her crimes. Primals are still being summoned by the beastmen, but there are now other people within the confines of the game's universe that can handle them while player characters are allowed to advance the story. It's why we're not going back to the original city-states every month to put down the original three time and again. It's pretty concluded.

That's not even a story. She's committed no crimes under Imperial Law, but she's sentenced by laws that haven't been enforced since before she was born. Ex post facto laws should have protected her. And then she's been enslaved by Ala Mhigo to fight primals. What kind of story is that? What's the message here? That Ala Mhigan are absolute monsters? That they're no better than the Empire? And then she's just left to rot in a cell? How is that a conclusion? Nothing has been followed through on this story, it's just a string of injustices left forgotten by the MSQ.

If you ask me, Lyse and Fordola are so prominent in the poster because of what the characters are meant to stand for: Lyse the dreamer, fighting for her home against the hopelessness of the situation and the will to defy fate.
Fordola the survivor, betraying her birth country to live and survive, accepting the fate dealt to her.

The themes of these characters were echoed throughout all of Stormblood by minor and major characters alike.

I never got the impression that Lyse was a dreamer. She bumbled through the liberation often times making it worse and driving the Ala Mhigans to despair. Throughout the story, nepotism grants her every single advantage while Fordola experienced anti-nepotism, cursed and punished for who her family was. Echo or not, these themes and stories have no conclusions. Lyse continues to flourish from nepotism, while Fordola continues to be punished for it and the story forgets this is happening and moves on to the Warriors of Darkness.

[Gwenorai]

Lyse is better because she has that awesome jacket. It's the BEST jacket in the game simply cause it doesn't have that stupid flap SE keeps trying to put on jackets like Squall's or the monk's AF for stormblood. Like WHY? It's like a turd hanging off the jacket ruining the designs. So Lyse's jacket is instantly the BEST. Tho I don't get the Mifillia hate. I feel like people hate on her simply for being an NPC.... like ALL of them make you run back and forth all thur ARR. So if anything hate ARR... but Mifillia wasn't posed to be a fighter anyway. She's a paper pusher. Least she knows her place unlike other NPCs who send you on a stupid goose chase for a party when they could've just told you the location of Titan. :/ NEVER letting that go.

I think the hate for Minfillia is linked into a multitude of things...
A) Her voice was annoying
B) She kept calling you back to the chuffing waking sands which didn't have an atheryte and she didn't want one.
C) She was pretty much useless and was always a damsel in distress
D) She has this weird issue where she likes to stay put and linger at people even though you're in mortal danger because she can't get over herself.
E) Did I mention she's useless and has zero combat skills?
F) Stayed in the waking freaking sands so her catmom could find her.
G) They finally get rid of her, only to bring her back as an even more important NPC. Because for some reason her connection with mama crystal is stronger than yours and thus she has to become the mouthpiece ?????

Probably a lot more going on honestly. All I know already is that the Minfillia in Shadow Bringers isn't dead weight.

[JunseiKei]

That's not even a story. She's committed no crimes under Imperial Law, but she's sentenced by laws that haven't been enforced since before she was born. Ex post facto laws should have protected her. And then she's been enslaved by Ala Mhigo to fight primals. What kind of story is that? What's the message here? That Ala Mhigan are absolute monsters? That they're no better than the Empire? And then she's just left to rot in a cell? How is that a conclusion? Nothing has been followed through on this story, it's just a string of injustices left forgotten by the MSQ.

Yes, because under imperial law, murder of people not co-operating isn't a crime. Or starving people. Things you and I would certainly call crimes. You're purposely being contrary and looking at things from a one dimensional view.

I never got the impression that Lyse was a dreamer. She bumbled through the liberation often times making it worse and driving the Ala Mhigans to despair. Throughout the story, nepotism grants her every single advantage while Fordola experienced anti-nepotism, cursed and punished for who her family was. Echo or not, these themes and stories have no conclusions. Lyse continues to flourish from nepotism, while Fordola continues to be punished for it and the story forgets this is happening and moves on to the Warriors of Darkness.

Her ideals and what she wants to do are what give the impression of a dreamer (see post above and her dialogue with Shanti - someone who is 'realistic' would just walk away or cut down Shanti outright). Yes, that is in part, the point. Fordola's family decided to throw their lot to the Garleans. I pointed this out with the two themes the characters embody, with Lyse and Fordola being complete opposites. She's also never been a leader before - she doesn't know what to do, but that doesn't dissuade her. I doubt you'd know how to suddenly lead an entire country with no government already in place.

[Insertcoins]

I think the hate for Minfillia is linked into a multitude of things...
A) Her voice was annoying
B) She kept calling you back to the chuffing waking sands which didn't have an atheryte and she didn't want one.
C) She was pretty much useless and was always a damsel in distress
D) She has this weird issue where she likes to stay put and linger at people even though you're in mortal danger because she can't get over herself.
E) Did I mention she's useless and has zero combat skills?
F) Stayed in the waking freaking sands so her catmom could find her.
G) They finally get rid of her, only to bring her back as an even more important NPC. Because for some reason her connection with mama crystal is stronger than yours and thus she has to become the mouthpiece ?????

Probably a lot more going on honestly. All I know already is that the Minfillia in Shadow Bringers isn't dead weight.

EVERYONE VOICE is stupid in english. - MAYHAP MAYHAP MAAAAAAAAYHAAAAAAP. Square.... I'd like you to see these words.... Maybe, Perhaps etc etc. They ALL sound like some kids in a badly voice play instead of pros in voice acting. Play it in Japanese... EVERYONE sounds better.
2. Everyone.. and I mean EVERYONE calls youmaking you go to and from all in ARR... so she isn't the only one. Plus it wasn't up to her to get one of those... if she had one of those then her group would've been tied to Ul'dah... which is what they didn't want. So they couldn't get the Antherryte.... that's WHY they had to move in the first place.
3. She wasn't posed to be a fighter... she was a paper pusher... and hell are any of the NPCs worth their salt tho? If they were they wouldn't make me do ALL their work. All of them are quilty of beign useless. Cause we are the main character.
4. Moving was a big deal...but hey not everyone can just drop their home and move. But if you wanna blame her for that then lets go down the list... I seem to remember one guy who was stupid and got himself caught AND was a badguy for a bit of time, I also remember a female roe who got herself killed cause she was stupid and ran into battle knowing she was outclassed.. but sure.. lets blame the paper pusher with no combat skills being kidnapped by a super boss.
5.She's a paper pusher. What did you expect her to do? Cause whatever it is.. none of the other NPC's do it either.
6. you got me there.... miqo mom was random.
7. I can say that about EVERYONE at ARR.... SE made me think they all died only to bring them all back.. and they are still useless.

[Gwenorai]

I'm not going to lie, Fordola was well written. She was a good character, but she was not a good person and I frankly hate her as a person. She's the poster child of broken dreams and 'I gave up'. And she only sits down and shuts up when she touches your 'mind' with the echo and realises you've gone through x100 more crap than she has and didn't end up selling out as she did. But yeah, I love the fact I'm repulsed by Fordola. She's so god damn dislikeable. The fact she wasn't straight up killed and was given some form of redemption arc bothers me so much.

I really hope in Shadow Bringers we can stop with the 'Oh, you must be redeemed' bull.

EVERYONE VOICE is stupid in english. - MAYHAP MAYHAP MAAAAAAAAYHAAAAAAP. Square.... I'd like you to see these words.... Maybe, Perhaps etc etc. They ALL sound like some kids in a badly voice play instead of pros in voice acting. Play it in Japanese... EVERYONE sounds better.
2. Everyone.. and I mean EVERYONE calls youmaking you go to and from all in ARR... so she isn't the only one.
3. She wasn't posed to be a fighter... she was a paper pusher... and hell are any of the NPCs worth their salt tho? If they were they wouldn't make me do ALL their work. All of them are quilty of beign useless. Cause we are the main character.
4. Moving was a big deal...but hey not everyone can just drop their home and move. But if you wanna blame her for that then lets go down the list... I seem to remember one guy who was stupid and got himself caught AND was a badguy for a bit of time, I also remember a female roe who got herself killed cause she was stupid and ran into battle knowing she was outclassed.. but sure.. lets blame the paper pusher with no combat skills being kidnapped by a super boss.
5.She's a paper pusher. What did you expect her to do? Cause whatever it is.. none of the other NPC's do it either.
6. you got me there.... miqo mom was random.
7. I can say that about EVERYONE at ARR.... SE made me think they all died only to bring them all back.. and they are still useless.

I mean, think about it. She's the only Scion that isn't combat trained. The ONLY one. Even Krile and Moenbreyda and 'Throwback the gates' cat man are combat trained. All of the rest of them can fight. All of them barring Tataru, and even she is more likeable and actually tried to learn how to fight and to not to be dead weight! Minfillia doesn't even try, she's just dead weight. She just sits there and ponders. And for a pencil pusher I've not once seen her write or handle papers - Tataru does that. Minfillia just stares at broken staff and ponders. To the point that Alphy, a 16 year old lad can fill her boots and more - thus he was suggested to take over. And he could fight! No, the only skill we know that Minfillia has is that she also has the echo 'big whoop' - and can mine. That's it.

So we have a pencil pusher, who's literally telling the strongest and smartest people in the realm what to do - and even then she hardly does that! And she does a terrible job at it!

[JunseiKei]

The fact she wasn't straight up killed and was given some form of redemption arc bothers me so much.

That's the point of Lyse. People who think others aren't inherently bad because they did bad things in a messed up situation. Remember, prison is supposed to be rehabilitation. When given the choice and talking with Raubahn, who wanted to kill Fordola and you say you'd spare her, he comments that your justice is a merciful one.