Going to the same route as WoW. The game is TOO easy

[Gula]

Adding onto 4 man, I listened in on a raid static's voice chat and my god, it was something I'd never want to be apart of in my life.

3 other people though I find would be a lot more interesting to coordinate with.

[Insertcoins]

If we could get Savage/ultimate content for 4-players that would be great! Even with an established FC with 80+ players online, it's not the easiest thing in the world to convince 8 of them to run a hardcore raid. 4? Absolutely doable though.

Tell that to everyone NOT doing Rath. :c

[Sathona]

I only wish the hard mode dungeons were SLIGHTLY harder,Hard modes are just different bosses as of now at higher level.
Either way Savage/Ultimate content are there for anyone who wants challenging content. UCoB wont get an unsynced version either so it will still remain a challenging raid for a long time.
What drew me into the game and made me ditch Blade and Soul was that i had a lot of options to progress,i dont need to open my wallet unless its for sub or cosmetics nor play the way someone wants me too otherwise kicked from clan!
On BnS the raid leader wanted people to read korean guides[which werent translated btw] etc. on FFXIV i can either do chill content or Savage/Ultimate depending on my mood and i love that, i find the classes fun and heck im willing to play tank here~
24man Alliance Raids can be either Savage or Ultimate depending whose with you in DF anyway /shrug

[Fynlar]

If you agree that being challenged and improving have a causal relationship, then perhaps it would follow that random parties would not remain such a burden forever.

Given how many terrible players I see at max level, still flubbing mechanics that should be nothing new at this point... I'm more skeptical of that happening than you are, I guess.

A remarkable amount of the "progress" made by players as a whole in this game has come solely through the efforts of other people who actually knew what they were doing. How many people do you see in, say, the Steps of Faith trial nowadays, who have clearly gotten past said trial before (often because no "new player" message shows up) yet they don't know how to do anything in the fight other than stay under Vishap and attack him?

Or did you mean that having to put in effort is tedious? I can't say I'll ever understand that point of view.

I gave a pretty good example of this with the Weeping City weekly, I think. Once a daily/weekly task becomes too much of a pain to do, I'll pretty much stop wanting to do it. I don't feel these sorts of things *should* be a pain to do.

I think most are fine with needing to put in effort to clear a savage raid or something, but once you start extending that to content designed for story progression or just gearing up so you can even *attempt* the savage raids... yes, it gets tedious. And I feel that's more likely to push people away from the game rather than "encourage" them.

[Schan]

I gave a pretty good example of this with the Weeping City weekly, I think. Once a daily/weekly task becomes too much of a pain to do, I'll pretty much stop wanting to do it. I don't feel these sorts of things *should* be a pain to do.

This is why these things are difficult. what is a pain for you might not be a pain for someone else. On top of that people react differently to challenge. What OP needs to understand is that the OP is a minority.

Every time SE throws anything middly challenging at us the forum erupts with requests for it to be nerfed. Not only that I'm not always up for a challenge every time i play this game. Furthermore, it depends on what i'm doing as you should know unfortunatly gamers hate wasting their time and challenge makes it so there's an higher chance of wasting their time. If i'm farming for something I don't want to waste 5h trying to find a party that doesn't wipe (hello ex trials)

So how do you cater to millions of people whose apetite for challenege may depend on mood? How do you find the sweet spot?

With that said. I sit with the minority that I would like more challenge but I am aware that not everyone is wired like i am. FFXIV tries to have a little bit for everyone and still people complain.

(btw PoTD and HoH was meant to be the 4 man Savage if you go for the top floors.)

[Akonyl]

If we could get Savage/ultimate content for 4-players that would be great! Even with an established FC with 80+ players online, it's not the easiest thing in the world to convince 8 of them to run a hardcore raid. 4? Absolutely doable though.

I wouldn't hold on to hopes for this too much, since PotD and HoH were basically supposed to be this, and to get to that "savage" level of difficulty instead of making the content itself especially difficult, they just ramped up the punishment for failure (hope you like reclearing 100 easy PotD floors before getting back to the harder stuff), so it seems to me like they don't really know how to balance 4-man content as tightly without gimping certain comps vs others.

[Deusteele]

It's funny, because as Blizzard implemented systems similar to suggestions in this thread, the game has been in decline. The forums over here make Mythic+ out to be a gift from the Twelve and that solves all problems. Mythic+ is a blight that damages the entirety of WoW. It's a black hole of system that should be expunged as the failure to promote positive gameplay that is it.

You want that weapon out of Savage/Ultimate, you do Savage/Ultimate.

Said it before, going to say it again; They listen, they give you content that you ask for, but it's not not what many really want. What many want are hard set bars that block others from that content. You wish to be the guardians that control how others play the game. You'll dissemble all your motivations to reach a satisfactory self delusion, but the truth still remains.

Get over yourselves.

[Izanagi_Fiaresu]

It's funny, because as Blizzard implemented systems similar to suggestions in this thread, the game has been in decline. The forums over here make Mythic+ out to be a gift from the Twelve and that solves all problems. Mythic+ is a blight that damages the entirety of WoW. It's a black hole of system that should be expunged as the failure to promote positive gameplay that is it.

You want that weapon out of Savage/Ultimate, you do Savage/Ultimate.

Said it before, going to say it again; They listen, they give you content that you ask for, but it's not not what many really want. What many want are hard set bars that block others from that content. You wish to be the guardians that control how others play the game. You'll dissemble all your motivations to reach a satisfactory self delusion, but the truth still remains.

Get over yourselves.

Can we just end the thread here.

[Kirajah]

IDK if this will be popular here, but just a quick glance at the front page of general discussion shows how far away from the original idea XIV has gone.

There is virtually no challenge outside of savage raids. There is little community aspect since everything is instanced, and people are far more concerned with minions and mounts that discussing battle startegies, since none is required.

I'm pretty old now I guess. I came up on EQ, played XI for 5 years and started XIV on 1.0. I played XIV now on and off. I resubbed this month with the expansion hype, but leveling my AST I found myself asking why. I mean, healing is no challenge what so ever. I'm mostly spamming my DD spells.

This is just venting, i suppose, but after seeing a lot of WoW refugee threads and videos I couldn't help but thinking XIV is heading in the same direction.

I, myself, will probably buckle and get the expansion, but I will 100% be playing Classic in Aug. and Pantheon whenever that comes out.

TLDR: The challenge is gone and with it the community.

There wouldn't be much of a community even if you removed all duty finder, party finder, instances, etc. People don't really play mmos for a community anymore. Back when WoW first came onto the scene, there wasn't as many resources that were good (example wowhead) to find information so you had to read the quests and complete the puzzles on your own. It was before almost every instant messenger program, in fact, things like ventrillo were created FOR wow specifically. Now everyone has discord servers and that's where people "hang out" and stay in their little bubbles.

As for getting easier, its honestly probably another sign of the times. Most games are targeted towards the same people that wow was targeted to when it came out. These people have grown up, have kids, and jobs and simply don't have as many hours to grind and struggle in fights. Personally as a whole, I don't think the game is that easy, nor that hard. Its approachable, and that's great. I much rather do ffxiv raids than wow raids because wow raids take too long. They are easy, they are long, with so much trash that I find them boring.

[Amariel34]

Legit question. Why does every game have to be super duper challenging? People calling for semi-casual games to be harder (as in Savage/Ultimate level hard throughout) is like going to a children's softball game and saying it has to run by professional rules and be played on a professional size field. If you find the game too easy, then why not quit and find another one that challenges you better? I just honestly don't understand this, and am curious why every single MMO has to be Ninja Warrior level challenging. I mean..... I really, honestly don't understand it.