Going to the same route as WoW. The game is TOO easy

[ElciaDeiLinus]

I find most of the time when people complain about a game being too easy- they can't even complete the most challenging content themselves. Also, as someone whose first MMO was vanilla WoW, I cringe when people talk about challenge and what'll soon be 'classic' in the same sentence.

Vanilla's longevity was about wasting time, NOT about challenge. Outside of Naxx, which did have some actually difficult mechanics, there were few difficult fights- and think about the mechanics to some of the hardest. For example, Twin Emps. Mechanically the fight comes down to being able to switch tank aggro. Nowadays, those mechanics are considered basic- because games are designed to let you do what you intend to do without hassle.


And therein lies most of the 'time consuming' aspects of classic wow. Taking half an hour to get to a raid, spending another half hour waiting for single summons and single target buffs to go out- these are not in the least bit challenging, they didn't ever make for a good community- but they sure as heck took hours of raid time up. Instead of waiting in queue while you do other things, like quest or mini games or whatever- you stood in a main city spamming trade for hours hoping to get a group, losing party members multiple times and having to stop, hearth, repeat midway through if someone left.

That's what classic wow without rose tinted glasses was- waiting. Its content wasn't gated through talent, but extreme time requirements that resulted in raid days that were two to three times longer than what we have in games now. Gear was gated through having one or two pieces that had a 10-20% chance to drop, and had sometimes a dozen people who wanted it- think about that, it could take half a year to get a piece of gear you want. The most challenging part of every single raid (with some exceptions in the Naxx raid) was getting 40 people organized- meaning, ultimately, the challenge of raiding had nothing to do with mechanics or even what 90% of the players did.

Rotations sometimes were as simple as a single button plus the occassional cooldown- the most challenging part of my hunter rotation was making sure my AA didn't get broken by aimed shot, and following the tranq shot order. Most 'mechanics', like that tranq shot order, were not about reacting or thinking quickly in fights, but about following precise instructions at specific times, and the biggest threat was often randomized and out of your control- like unavoidable fears. If you had the right gear, and you could press 1-3 buttons, you were very close to being top notch efficient on almost every single spec in the game.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

And even the one thing that might, to a degree, be considered better- community- was a result of having a small community with no cross realm. Do we even know classic will have no cross realm? Even if it did- you ultimately ended up doing the exact same thing- standing around in one place spamming chat for a group instead of using a group finder- however, in classic you had to stay in the city due to how chat worked, whereas group finders made it so you could do things while waiting. Vanilla was actually the worst when it came to forcing everyone into the same place- IF, SW and Org were always absolutely packed.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying Vanilla WoW, but please don't try to make it out as something it wasn't. The rotations in this game's easiest to play class are ten times more complex than anything in Vanilla. The boss mechanics even of Naxx fights were more simplistic than even some levelling bosses in this game- sure, getting 40 people to do the safety dance when graphically it barely even showed for many players, there was lag, and there were no indicators was 'difficult'- but I don't think it's a less 'braindead' encounter when most of the challenge is lag, 39 other players doing it right, limited space (C'thun eye beams comes to mind), and not actually knowing when or where attacks will land.

I actually think it takes far more effort to learn fights based off having to observe rather than having to memorize a strategy and stand in the correct spot.

Also- 15 year old product more appealing than the current version? It'll have some popularity, it'll definitely spike at first since people will be done Azshara's initial push when Classic comes out, and no doubt many players will spend time there between major patches. But I think we need to wait a year before we can truly say it's more appealing.

There were things I enjoyed about Vanilla, don't get me wrong- I had more fun with pvp matches that had substance and the long AV, and I liked the feeling of growth through the dungeons, as well as the value of CC and non-rotation abilities since they could actually work on mobs in dungeons. But- it was not a complicated game, it was not an intelligent game, it didn't have hard mechanics, and for anyone to ever complain about 'waiting' in a modern game and then try to pass off classic wow as BETTER makes my first thought be 'this is a person who has never played vanilla wow'.

Vanilla WoW is the game of waiting- you wait for buffs, you wait for your party to get there, you wait for resources to regen, you wait on excruciatingly slow flight paths, you wait to get a party to begin with, you wait for bosses to respawn on wipes, you run through massive dungeons and zones after wipes. You wait wait wait wait wait- half the game was waiting or travelling.

[Gula]

That's on the people doing that then, not him. The guides are there to help inform players, people treating them as gospel is their own fault. If this is that big of a thorn in players sides then dont watch the guides. Create a static that runs everything blind. Let's stop vilifying content creators because parts of the community misuse the guides.

So how's that youtube channel coming along then?

These creators could wait a week to upload. But they chose not to to be FIRST!!! and have their name on everyone's digital lips. They have a discourtesy of their own that encourages impatience and reliance on hastily put together tactics. RajmanGaming HD had an awful, awful Sonic Mania walkthrough that was the first and only one uploaded. Many people commented on this, but gotta be first even if it's trash.

[Physic]

No, they can't go back to 1.0 because 1.0 was awful .

Signed, someone who actually was there from beta 1.0 to the final day. I leveled my first 2 classes to 50 on doblyns and coblyns. I was capped on earth and fire shards when 2.0 started. And had thousands of crystals.

1.0 was under cooked and lacked direction. 5.0, possibly, Has a different type of problem.

i'd say the fear is its going to be less engaging and less special. The problem is less about challenge, and more about boredom.

challenge is one way to allievate it, but they have other factors.

less differentiation in certain job roles.

"streamling" classes until they have less cool things/things to improve on

The same amount of skills, and less mechanics, spread out through more levels (now you need level 80 to get the same number of mechanics as 70 before)

less synergy and interaction between classes.


How good this expansion is, is going to be mostly about the story, and the content, i dont think the classes and jobs are going to be as entertaining as they used to be. Id say they need to focus on cool stuff before streamlining and tight balance in future content.

more uniquness, more fun mechanics, more synergy/interaction between players, thats something that crosses the casual/hardcore divide

[gumas]

the game was never hard to begin with, even back from ARR era. if you want hard go play souls game

[Gula]

the game was never hard to begin with, even back from ARR era. if you want hard go play souls game

*Play Sekiro

[Aeloria]

There is Ultimate and Savage raids and Extreme Trials. That is a lot of content, maybe not enough but still its a hefty chunk. A lot of it gives many players a very strong challenge. The thing is at the end of the day this is a game ran by a business that wants to bring in as many customers as possible and overly complicated content does not pay the bills. I mean when 4man dungeons with relatively simple mechanics can turn into wipe fests and dps checks not being met in those (Mist Dragon) good gravy please do not up the difficulty on that.. It's fine. I like getting in and out when i run a roulette.

Also OP exactly what do you think the original idea of the game was? It really seems to me that Yoshi has gone out of his way to make the game accessible. What exactly am I missing?

[CorbinDallas]

While we're on the topic of content creators real quick, am I the only one who thinks it's both hilarious and facepalm worthy that there's already a guide out for the 73 dungeon, the one that isn't even out yet?

Also I agree with the OP to some extent, but more on the side of Savage has been getting easier and easier with every patch. Not a bad thing entirely since it gets new raiders into the scene, but if it keeps going that way they may as well just rename them (Extreme) and call it a day.

Tack on how much they've simplified jobs in 4.0/5.0 because people can't read or even do their main role (healing) efficiently in the first place, it's no wonder some people may feel jaded about the game's overall difficulty right now.

[Fynlar]

I don't think it's "hilarious" at all that a guide exists for it. The entire dungeon was playable and is unlikely to be altered significantly, if at all, between now and official release unless something was extremely broken about it in "beta", which it didn't seem to be.

As far as I see it, getting a guide out for it now lessens the workload they'll have when 5.0 actually lands.

[KaitoAsaha]

People are making dungeon guides?