We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[Feidam]

And? Doesn't matter if they spawn by themselves; to get a blood lily, I need to spend regular lilies three times in 90 seconds if I don't want to sit on stacks. From my experience, and no, I'm not bullying anyone here, that isn't going to happen unless things go fubar.

Why would you not spend the liliies? They are insta cast heals. Sure they are on the global cooldown but other than that they are free and can be cast on the move. That eventually give you a 900 potency attack.

[MintnHoney]

Team sly also if you remembered didn't have a good come back for WHY he was upset.

If you will also recall, when he tried to explain himself, and even before he did, the other three commentators kept slamming him before he could even get out a complete sentence. If he did have a reason, they all went full-on YoshiP and decided that he shouldn't have it before he even gave it, which, for many people, is demoralizing enough to stop the outlier from expressing their thoughts when groupthinkers try to eat them alive.

Meanwhile, that like: the very first question, I guess, is their official stance. And it's exactly what I thought it was going to be.
"wait for savage content, then we'll think about listening to you"

Why would you not spend the liliies? They are insta cast heals. Sure they are on the global cooldown but other than that they are free and can be cast on the move. That eventually give you a 900 potency attack.

If you're concerned about optimization, you would wait for the opportunity to weave in certain spells/skills/abilities between recast times, while trying to avoid clipping into those recast times.
In this case, from what others have presented, the optimal use seems to be to wait until WHM has Assize to weave between lily heal usage, which means that they could be waiting a while to use them depending on the scenario.

[Feidam]

If you will also recall, when he tried to explain himself, and even before he did, the other three commentators kept slamming him before he could even get out a complete sentence. If he did have a reason, they all went full-on YoshiP and decided that he shouldn't have it before he even gave it, which, for many people, is demoralizing enough to stop the outlier from expressing their thoughts when groupthinkers try to eat them alive.

Meanwhile, that like: the very first question, I guess, is their official stance. And it's exactly what I thought it was going to be.
"wait for savage content, then we'll think about listening to you"


If you're concerned about optimization, you would wait for the opportunity to weave in certain spells/skills/abilities between recast times, while trying to avoid clipping into those recast times.
In this case, from what others have presented, the optimal use seems to be to wait until WHM has Assize to weave between lily heal usage, which means that they could be waiting a while to use them depending on the scenario.

And I agree with that, but you would still get the blood lily eventually and then could fire off the 900 potency nuke. You just can not get them faster than 90 sec. I fail to see how utilizing misery when available will be a dps loss and dumb thing to do as the other poster insinuated.

[Yuyuka3]

Why would you not spend the liliies? They are insta cast heals. Sure they are on the global cooldown but other than that they are free and can be cast on the move. That eventually give you a 900 potency attack.

Because I could just use Glare in that time and heal the tank with Tetragrammaton or Benediction instead. I need 3 GCD heals plus Misery (also GCD) to get one Misery off; that's 1200 potency in the first case, and 900 in the latter. And I think we all learned in elementary school that 1200 > 900.

[Feidam]

Because I could just use Glare in that time and heal the tank with Tetragrammaton or Benediction instead. I need 3 GCD heals plus Misery (also GCD) to get one Misery off; that's 1200 potency in the first case, and 900 in the latter. And I think we all learned in elementary school that 1200 > 900.

You are ignoring movement periods and are acting like people are suggesting just fishing for misery. Although I am sure some folks will just fish for misery.

[Yuyuka3]

You are ignoring movement periods and are acting like people are suggesting just fishing for misery.

If we move enough to burn three lilies in 90 seconds, sure. Probably not, though, and it's also not sure we will even need so much healing (plus, that doesn't magically erase our oGCDs, they are still there to use) in those movement periods. Everything else will mean we will sit on stacks until enough movement periods came to bloom the blood lily, which isn't good design at all.

[Feidam]

If we move enough to burn three lilies in 90 seconds, sure. Probably not, though, and it's also not sure we will even need so much healing (plus, that doesn't magically erase our oGCDs, they are still there to use) in those movement periods. Everything else will mean we will sit on stacks until enough movement periods came to bloom the blood lily, which isn't good design at all.

If you are moving why not use the lily instead of the ogcd? Not doing much weaving in that case. And it would open up more options. As for the amount of healing we will have to wait and see. They want healers to heal more so we will have to see if they ultimately hit that mark.

[Yuyuka3]

If you are moving why not use the lily instead of the ogcd? Not doing much weaving in that case. And it would open up more options. As for the amount of healing we will have to wait and see. They want healers to heal more so we will have to see if they ultimately hit that mark.

I can also Swiftcast -> Glare and then spam my DoT, which got some nice, front-loaded potency. Under certain circumstances, e.g. not much healing required, that's better than blowing lilies and overhealing.
And I wouldn't hold my breath, they literally confirmed it's the last Alexander tier all over again in difficulty.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

The issue with that here tho is like fro mwhat I seen the people who PLAYED healers in 5.0 all said they were fine tho. Mr.Happy, and various others aren't worried about healing based on what they played, I watched tons of podcast of them saying so. So if we go by THAT then why ARE people worried?

So, again, a lot of that particular response of mine was aimed towards people discouraging another poster from letting the discussion here influence their thoughts/advocating blanket distrust of outside opinions. In isolation from the game.

Of course, your point is likely "if you typically trust expert consensus, why don't you trust Mr. Happy et al.'s take?" It's a decent one to make. Quick confession: I am not a master healer in this game. I know I'm not good enough to do Ultimate, and have no desire to waste my and other's time failing at it. I therefore wound up falling out of my static this expansion after O4S because I didn't want to prog UCoB (also, I had to finish graduate work and adjust to post-grad life). So Mr. Happy is by FAR a more accomplished and skilled player than I.

So, time for an analogy. There's a neontologist/neoecologist that was a teacher of mine. She's by far more accomplished than I in science (several dozen papers versus my three at the moment). I also think she's a better scientist overall both in terms of coming up with study methods and in insightful analysis of results. What she isn't, though our fields are very closely related, is a paleontologist. If she proposed the presence of Probabiles animalis, an extant taxon restricted to steppe, indicated a steppe ecosystem, but I have fossil or geologic data (other fossil taxa, paleoecological proxies) which conflicts with that conclusion, I'd be deeply skeptical. Perhaps Probabiles animalis had a wider realized niche in the past or we're dealing with a no-modern-analog ecosystem. I'm a worse scientist than her, but I know paleontology well enough to be confident in my ability to assess based on available evidence. Here, that available evidence indicates to me that the existing hypothesis based on the fossil record should continue to be be favored until further support for the steppe hypothesis manifests.

In this case, Mr. Happy is a better player than me, but he's not a healer main. It's not what's on the top of his mind going into a new expansion. The same goes for most of the other FF14 experts who've played, because Square Enix invited almost no healer mains. Meanwhile I've been in the healer White Mage viewpoint almost exclusively outside of braindead casual content for my entire time playing this game, and I think the things I have managed to clear inform my opinion enough that I'm not speaking from complete ignorance.

The opinions of these expert players do figure into my thought process, but they clash strongly with my present experience, knowledge of tooltips for new skills, and prior patterns of Square Enix balancing/game design. Not one of them has answered the important question of "what are we supposed to do in the downtime? Is it more fun than what we had in StB?" As in my analogy, I think the burden of proof lies on the new hypothesis, showing that Square Enix has succeeded in getting healers right for the first time in two expansions, rather than the old one, which is that healing uptime is very low in FF14, DPS or support skills have to therefore be well developed to leave the role fun to play GCD to GCD, and that WHM lacks the tools it needs to be more than the prog healer.

[WaterShield]

So, again, a lot of that particular response of mine was aimed towards people discouraging another poster from letting the discussion here influence their thoughts/advocating blanket distrust of outside opinions. In isolation from the game.

Of course, your point is likely "if you typically trust expert consensus, why don't you trust Mr. Happy et al.'s take? It's a decent one to make. Quick confession: I am not a master healer in this game. I know I'm not good enough to do Ultimate, and have no desire to waste my and other's time failing at it. I therefore wound up falling out of my static this expansion after O4S because I didn't want to prog UCoB (also, I had to finish graduate work and adjust to post-grad life). So Mr. Happy is by FAR a more accomplished and skilled player than I.

So, time for an analogy. There's a neontologist/neoecologist that was a teacher of mine. She's by far more accomplished than I in science (several dozen papers versus my three at the moment). I also think she's a better scientist overall both in terms of coming up with study methods and in insightful analysis of results. What she isn't, though our fields are very closely related, is a paleontologist. If she proposed the presence of Probabiles animalis, an extant taxon restricted to steppe, indicated a steppe ecosystem, but I have fossil or geologic data (other fossil taxa, paleoecological proxies) which conflicts with that conclusion, I'd be deeply skeptical. Perhaps Probabiles animalis had a wider realized niche in the past or we're dealing with a no-modern-analog ecosystem. I'm a worse scientist than her, but I know paleontology well enough to be confident in my ability to assess based on available evidence. Here, that available evidence indicates to me that the existing hypothesis based on the fossil record should continue to be be favored until further support for the steppe hypothesis manifests.

In this case, Mr. Happy is a better player than me, but he's not a healer main. It's not what's on the top of his mind going into a new expansion. The same goes for most of the other FF14 experts who've played, because Square Enix invited almost no healer mains. Meanwhile I've been in the healer White Mage viewpoint almost exclusively outside of braindead casual content for my entire time playing this game, and I think the things I have managed to clear inform my opinion enough that I'm not speaking from complete ignorance.

The opinions of these expert players do figure into my thought process, but they clash strongly with my present experience, knowledge of tooltips for new skills, and prior patterns of Square Enix balancing/game design. Not one of them has answered the important question of "what are we supposed to do in the downtime? Is it more fun than what we had in StB?" As in my analogy, I think the burden of proof lies on the new hypothesis, showing that Square Enix has succeeded in getting healers right for the first time in two expansions, rather than the old one, which is that healing uptime is very low in FF14, DPS or support skills have to therefore be well developed to leave the role fun to play GCD to GCD, and that WHM lacks the tools it needs to be more than the prog healer.

Very well said.

I seriously don't understand why this is such a controversial topic for some people.