We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[Shurrikhan]

Yes. Apparently the forums don't think it's a good idea to check the content where the changes would be relevant before picking up the pitchforks and start poking away.
"Shoot first, ask questions later" seems to be the dominant mindset based off a strong bias that "because nothing changed before, nothing will change now!". (If everything worked that way, nothing would ever change. But that doesn't seem to be wildly understood.)

And here I thought people learned a lesson with Gordias and were shown how badly community's feedback could negatively impact something before it's even out. I guess I was wrong.

And again we have a false ultimatum pushed by a false narrative...

For every time SE claims that the playerbase impossible to appease because they want more than X and less than Y, remember that there can easily be dozens of acceptable points within that span. Asking for, say, greater than the difficulty of O1S and less than a difficulty of M8S does not exactly leave SE without (nigh infinite) options.
When the problem itself is that one piece of content was overtuned and the next undertuned, you can't treat those two points as infinitesimally close and therefore unable to be intermediated with proper design. If they were, people wouldn't have noticed the difference to begin with.

And the sad thing is that the idea of A4S being overtuned because of community request is complete bogus. It was an overtuned mess because they skimped on efforts to tune it. When your own test team cannot clear it without full HP and refreshed CDs per phase, atop various immunities, there's a problem. Why it was released as such despite this boggles the mind. But, of course, let's blame it on our being impossible to appease rather than the cut corners actually to blame here.

[guardin]

Hey Square Enix,

Healers are just not fun anymore. Shouldn't a game feel fun for the players and not exhausting? Nobody is happy with spamming one damage skill for ever in most of the content. Sure there are fights where you need to heal more but that's a very low percentage of content. I heard many opinions from healer mains and many of them are considering to change to tank or dps. Why? Because healer gameplay is just boring. Do square enix know that the queues will be extremely long for tanks and dps, when many healers are changing mains. And I don't think someone would start healing job when there is no new job and the current healers gameplay is to spam one button. Please think about how you are treating healers in this game and what exactly the reason is to simplify them to a level where it is no more fun to play. We are not dumb. We want to learn a job and have fun be getting better in it. Healers are doomed.

please put this into one thread. you have not even tried the new healers. and the media press that has are very satisfied with it. wait until a month or so after the launch and give feedback. you are entitled to your own opinion but please be reasonable. SE ans yoshi are not dumb.

[DiznypKC]

And you kind of just proved my point, with a very strong reaction to someone mentioning the other side. In my experience the number of people that just stand around and the number who tunnel vision are about equal. And both sides want to protect their precious stand point. The middle where most folks are understand that to fully utilize the kit is a more successful use of the groups time. Of course there is various levels of success per individual player skill. But what is asinine is to ignore the other aspect where healers favor dps more than tossing a heal and someone dies. Not just the occasional death either, but some of the healers let it happen consistently. Happens more than you are willing to admit it seems. And quite frankly neither side should speak from a position of authority on the matter.

And someone who stands around and heals only isn’t refusing to play their role assuming everyone stays alive. They are playing suboptimally though.

I also do understand healer anxiety and all that, but I do struggle with why folks just want to just stand around and not slowly adapt. Seems boring. Oh well, like you said it is their dime.

Honey, just, no. They did not prove your point. They proved that your point was, well, pointless.

You implicated that there were two kinds of healers: those who stand around and wait to heal, and those who DPS so hard that they ignore the health bars and their parties die.

Woe unto your misguided notion. I don’t know what coin you’re looking at, but that is certainly not the case.

By your reasoning, one could argue that healers who stand around also cause their parties to wipe during tight DPS checks by not contributing at all. Soooooo...you wanna stick to your claim there?

[DiznypKC]

please put this into one thread. you have not even tried the new healers. and the media press that has are very satisfied with it. wait until a month or so after the launch and give feedback. you are entitled to your own opinion but please be reasonable. SE ans yoshi are not dumb.

Please stop with this tripe. None of the media players main healers, and even then some of them had some concerns.

We don’t think SE and Yoshi are dumb. We could argue that they’re out of touch with how healers play in their combat encounters based on the FOUR YEARS and countless attempts at “balancing” said healers.

What’s that saying? Believe patterns, not people?

[Brandedblade]

Art of war is 50 less potency than Miasma II and Ruin 2 is one target where Miasma II shined in AOE situations.

Art of War is a compromise. It has more upfront damage per cast at the cost of not having the full potency of the dot component. While I agree miasma does more damage. That's only if you let the dot tick. In aoe situations where you're spamming Miasma II you're also clipping the dot and therefore loosing the potency the dot provided.

And besides, Ruin II is getting buffed to 200 potency... the same total potency as Miasma II had. What they have done was make a clear distinction between "This is the dps skill you double weave with in single target setting" and "this is the dps spell you use for aoe, with the added bonus of giving you weaving space."


What the (Warning: My opinion) issue with Miasma II was that it filled both of these niches. I never liked that myself. I prefer using Ruin II for weaving because it allows me to keep my distance, but its potency was abysmal compared to what Miasma II granted. Does it not bother anyone to have to use an AoE spell that puts you in melee range for weaving?

While the whole thing with Bane and shadow flare is another topic all together, I will gladly take Art of War and buffed Ruin II over Miasma II any day. SB Miasma II is literally just a haphazardly thrown together skill to quickly patch a weakness in sch's toolkit. While Art of War reuses a pvp skill animation, it feels like it had more thought put into it then Miasma II did.

[Feidam]

Honey, just, no. They did not prove your point. They proved that your point was, well, pointless.

You implicated that there were two kinds of healers: those who stand around and wait to heal, and those who DPS so hard that they ignore the health bars and their parties die.

Woe unto your misguided notion. I don’t know what coin you’re looking at, but that is certainly not the case.

By your reasoning, one could argue that healers who stand around also cause their parties to wipe during tight DPS checks by not contributing at all. Soooooo...you wanna stick to your claim there?

You need to go back and read my original point which was adding to the quote that only bad healers that stand around do nothing but heal try to act as authorities. To which i said imo it’s a two sided coin of extremes. You then need to reread what you quoted, because i clearly stated that most folks lie in between the two areas and understand that utilizing the whole kit is a more successful use of the groups time. So yes i will stick to my claim that the majority of players understand that utilizing or attempting to utilize the full kit is of the best use to the group and only the extremes stand around and only heal or tunnel vision dps. And that neither of those extremes should act as an authority on healing.

[DiznypKC]

You need to go back and read my original point which was adding to the quote that only bad healers that stand around do nothing but heal try to act as authorities. To which i said imo it’s a two sided coin of extremes. You then need to reread what you quoted, because i clearly stated that most folks lie in between the two areas and understand that utilizing the whole kit is a more successful use of the groups time. So yes i will stick to my claim that the majority of players understand that utilizing or attempting to utilize the full kit is of the best use to the group and only the extremes stand around and only heal or tunnel vision dps. And that neither of those extremes should act as an authority on healing.

Ah, yes, I see what you mean. I’m not sure how I missed it, but I apologize for jumping on you for my misconception.

As to your original point, I agree with you there. Thanks for the clarification!

[Feidam]

Ah, yes, I see what you mean. I’m not sure how I missed it, but I apologize for jumping on you for my misconception.

As to your original point, I agree with you there. Thanks for the clarification!

Well apparently I need to write more than np To tell you no worries. So I am being long winded in saying no problem.:-P

[Shurrikhan]

So do you live by letting people make decisions for you?

Do you live purposely ignoring all information available to you?

[Insertcoins]

I see, I've been doing scientific research wrong since my undergraduate days! I need to repeat every experiment ever done in my field myself, because I cannot rely on the papers and work of colleagues!

Be right back, building time machine so I can actually witness paleoecosystems firsthand instead of relying on meta-synthesis of paleoecological, functional morphometrics, paleoclimate proxy, and depositional environment studies.

I'll have to reinvent physics starting from Aristotle first though.

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Listening to other people is not the failing so many seem to think it is. Working in the sciences, where a given person can only be a true expert in a very narrow field of study, has taught me respect for the consensus of experts from other fields without being blindly obeisant (neontologists can run all the models they want, if it doesn't line up with the fossil record I'm gonna be skeptical of it).

The issue with that here tho is like fro mwhat I seen the people who PLAYED healers in 5.0 all said they were fine tho. Mr.Happy, and various others aren't worried about healing based on what they played, I watched tons of podcast of them saying so. So if we go by THAT then why ARE people worried?