We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[Deceptus]

I fully believe the only real data comes from experiencing for oneself and ignoring outside input outside of a proceed with caution.

Can't tell if serious or not.jpeg

If you're serious, you're a fool. That would mean you discard all scientific data because you didn't experience it personally.

[Semirhage]

Just because it's called Ultimate does not mean it does not suffer from the same healing design issues as Savage.

What if you design content in such a way that dropping an OGCD or a Regen does not take care of the whole thing?

Can you really not think of ways to force healers to use some GCDs?

I don't consider spamming Cure to be "varied, interesting gameplay", so no I don't think forcing healers to use GCDs fixes the problem.

I've said it elsewhere. This game's healing GCD kits are not complicated. They're a set of Simon Says buttons that you use in a short list of decisions. I don't mind healing being simple, as long as I have something fun to manage while doing it. Square disagrees.

So I restate: what content design magically un-clunks a kit?

[Gaethan_Tessula]

This subforum has like three experts on it.

I'm honestly more responding to the "I think for myself and stick to mah convictions no matter what!" sentiment itself here. I find it poisonously anti-intellectual.

Anyone who says they think for themselves by actively ignoring outside sources of information really just means they cherry pick what outside information they choose to consider. Because no one actually does, or can, figure out the world from purely deductive reasoning (the enlightenment got that one wrong, along with the assumption people are rational actors by default). Nor can anyone on their own replicate the entire sum of mankind's empirical experimentation and learning from scratch within a single human lifetime.

[Kabooa]

I'm honestly more responding to the "I think for myself and stick to mah convictions no matter what!" sentiment itself here. I find it poisonously anti-intellectual.

Anyone who says they think for themselves by actively ignoring outside sources of information really just means they cherry pick what outside information they choose to consider. Because no one actually does, or can, figure out the world from purely deductive reasoning (the enlightenment got that one wrong, along with the assumption people are rational actors by default). Nor can anyone on their own replicate the entire sum of mankind's empirical experimentation and learning from scratch within a single human lifetime.

Sure.

But this is a game.

I think bringing the scope of the entirety of humanity here and using it as some sort of argument for the game itself is equally flawed as using the logic of anti-vaxxers.

[LariaKirin]

I don't consider spamming Cure to be "varied, interesting gameplay", so no I don't think forcing healers to use GCDs fixes the problem.

I've said it elsewhere. This game's healing GCD kits are not complicated. They're a set of Simon Says buttons that you use in a short list of decisions. I don't mind healing being simple, as long as I have something fun to manage while doing it. Square disagrees.

So I restate: what content design magically un-clunks a kit?

Nowhere did I say spam Cure. Most unhappy healers complain about the changes because we spend too much time DPSing with an easy rotation. If making you put your healing kit to use is not enough for you, then what exactly do you want?

What do you want from the healer role? What do you consider an "un-clunked" kit?

[Gaethan_Tessula]

Sure.

But this is a game.

I think bringing the scope of the entirety of humanity here and using it as some sort of argument for the game itself is equally flawed as using the logic of anti-vaxxers.

This is what I initially responded to...

So do you live by letting people make decisions for you?

which was aimed at someone who said that the debate in this forum had helped them come to a decision on Shadowbringers.

I don't care what the venue or topic is. Encouraging ossification of opinion against input of evidence is not something I'm going to stay quiet about. And since it's that philosophy itself I'm taking aim at, I will use the strongest example I can to show why it's bogus.

So, to be clear, I'm not making an argument for or against the game here. I'm taking a bat to a poisonous philosophy in isolation from it.

--------------

As to the game, when I see evidence of game design that supports Square Enix knowing all along what they were doing with healers in this game, I will gladly admit to having been overly cynical and pessimistic. For the moment, however, what's available to us points towards the game design not changing to support the playstyle for healers Square professes they want. I'm going to engage in discussion with what we have rather than waiting to see, for absolute certain, if something later disproves my stance. Because when it comes, it comes, and I should adapt my analysis to fit the data at that point in time and not before.

[HyperiusUltima]

Nowhere did I say spam Cure. Most unhappy healers complain about the changes because we spend too much time DPSing with an easy rotation. If making you put your healing kit to use is not enough for you, then what exactly do you want?

What do you want from the healer role? What do you consider an "un-clunked" kit?

White Mage.

If you want to "un-clunk" something, you need to know where the strain is. The constraint for WHM is the fact that EVERYTHING IS GCD and their only real go-to oGCD will be Aero II. It's been a problem with the job for a long ass time, and they haven't done anything about it. Just tack on more heals that incite the GCD through resources instead of giving WHM what they really need...

SCH hasn't had fluidity issues outside of more or less having a redundant emergency button(which should NEVER be used unless in the most dire of situations) called Dissipation. It was a bit of an awkward capstone since all it does is give Largesse and 3 stacks of Aetherflow for a set amount of time. If you wanted to change it, it'd just be that ability. Going into the expansion however SCH lost its biggest ability that they need: Energy Drain. Otherwise, their stacks have nothing to go towards when we actually need our Aetherflow to adjust. It's the biggest flaw right now in SCH's kit. If it had Energy Drain? I wouldn't mind. The main thing they're trying to limit is MP Regeneration, since that seems to be the biggest thing here. Easiest thing they could do is just remove the MP absorption and be done because otherwise, SCH was developed pretty badly in the rework.

AST on the other hand...surprisingly looks ok going in. They nerfed cards, sure, but that was so they weren't overwhelmingly powerful in utility so as they can just overpower WHM like they have all of Stormblood, especially with the 1.5s GCD which allows them to weave.

Removing the constraints and improving it so as to create fluidity in a job while keeping its dynamic is key to making it "un-clunked".

[Brightamethyst]

Yes, there's stuff that looks annoying overall in the changes. Yes, people are going to be mad. Yes, things might suck for a bit. But the developers gather playdata, as well as feedback AFTER the changes have launched, and make adjustments based on what they feel is necessary.

You had me until that last part where they "make adjustments based on what they feel is necessary." Historically they've be perfectly happy to let broken things stay broken for a really long time.

[Semirhage]

Nowhere did I say spam Cure

You didn't need to. Bit of an oversimplification though it may be, that's what enforced GCD healing in this game pretty much is. There's no resource consideration of note, no real triaging, no rotations, no skill chains, nada. You see the party took damage? Cast an AOE heal. One person? Regen if they're fine, Cure 2 if they're not. Done. As a side note, I don't think this game's GCD, engine, or broad encounter design would fit any of those previously mentioned healing design directions very well.

If you want to "un-clunk" something, you need to know where the strain is...

Removing the constraints and improving it so as to create fluidity in a job while keeping its dynamic is key to making it "un-clunked".

Largely this.

I like the different approach to healing FFXIV's design has afforded (or hinted at in the case of WHM). I like keeping balls in the air and juggling multiple responsibilities. I think our healing kits under this paradigm are interesting precisely because their simplicity allows people to figure out how to weave their utilities together at the high end while still functioning at the very low end. I think that's cool.

I hate these changes because they reveal that the development direction here is "juggling bad, cure spam good". That's a yikes (and a DPS class in SHB) from me dawg.

[Raiya]

To be quite honest I'm nearly expecting the Dev's to roll back on the Healer changes within a few weeks of launch as the changes are being panned as bad in general, AST always had the worst DPS options and now WHM and SCH are being nerfed to that level which people do not enjoy, as a healer I want to be able to DPS when healing isn't needed but spamming one button constantly is off putting, what were gonna end up seeing is because of the changes to tanks that DPS and Tanks will be plentiful and healers hard to get because people are going to quickly become bored and stop playing it.

They need to give WHM Aero III back, they need to give AST some new DPS ability and they really need to leave SCH's Miasma 1 and 2 be and stop deleting it, give SMN a replacement DOT or something but leave SCH with the Miasma spells and Energy Drain.