We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[Feidam]

This feedback helped me make decisions about what to do when ShB launches. What all the messages telling people to shut up and wait accomplish exactly?

Except this feedback could be erroneous and then given you the wrong impression. And you have now made a decision without personal experience. Granted they could also be right, but even then it doesn’t mean you would have the same experience while playing.

Not telling anyone to shut up, but at the end of the day there been almost daily threads on this for weeks now. I think they know of the initial response. We know their stance is try it first. It has been that way since day one and threads demanding official response and immediate action solves nothing. However, feedback with proof given in concise statements with explanations without all the emotions does provide a needed resource. Keeping it to one or two places allows for quicker access as well. Even then you need to use experience from the new style. Past experience is great, but if they have changed stuff they will put any feedback aside until it is played by the majority.

[Feidam]

I don't think that's a good way to express our issues, though. If you don't play healers, how can you give more concise feedback? It's already widely known on this forum that healers are malcontent with the current build, and that there's a LOT of people yelling at the top of their lungs to fix Healers in a proper way other than how this is considered garbage. I can argue over significant tools(buffs/debuffs) that some jobs have over another, but again to bring out the "black sheep" of the Healers(WHM, despite it being called White Mage it was ignored all of Stormblood up until 4.5) they've needed a significant change for a long time, and what they received isn't it because it's more of the same kit they already have except allowing movement options every 30s, plus a 900 potency to make up for the 1200 potency you lose.

SCH I can understand their huge issue with Art of War and...well, going from a complex job to a very simple system. They had to knock SCH down a few notches because it's been dominant for 2 expansions now and Yoshida knows it because of usage rates.

AST most people are hateful for because they're taking away their big card gimmick that people liked. They've always come out on top against WHM since Heavensward(despite the rocky inception), and have eclipsed WHM since then because they constantly buff it each expansion in fear of it being like it was back in Heavensward.

The one thing I think Yoshida is trying to get across is that complexity need not be what makes everything fun when it comes to a job. Since Heavensward, they've had huge gaps between people who play and wants to close it some so that more people can have a chance at Savage as well, considering how people have the tendency to have cold feet when even asking about Savage in the first place(because everyone seems to think it's hard; which it is, and just wants it handed to them on a silver platter).

Ok maybe I should have spelled it out more, but obviously should play gather data and then you give your feedback. If feel that strongly you stop playing and let the pop drop a bit. They will get the hint. If it really is that large of an issue. I suspect like with the Lily issue in stormblood the bulk of the players will keep playing and ultimately won’t care. Forum users are the real minority of the game.

Understand the scholar disappointment too. I hate that we’ve lost the dots, bane and Shadowflare. I love being a dot class. However, minus the MP cost art of war really isn’t that far off of gravity or holy. Hell the tooltip I saw it had ten more potency. Granted they will need to tweak the other dps spells a bit to get them in line imo. I know what I think is going to happen when I play the class come launch, but until I try it I don’t know 100%. All the other changes to the game could combine to make a fun experience. Admittedly soloing will be a bit dull.

[LariaKirin]

We know what they are compared to varied levels of healing requirements. If your changes fail even in the face of ultimate content levels of healing then it's a safe bet ShB won't provide enough healing for it to be worthwhile.

It would be a good metric, if the current Ultimates were designed in the context of SHB.

[Semirhage]

It would be a good metric, if the current Ultimates were designed in the context of SHB.

I would *love* to know what "content" magically un-clunks a kit. Maybe we'll get a boss that temporarily changes healer hotbars to contain varied, interesting gameplay!

[Gaethan_Tessula]

So do you live by letting people make decisions for you?

So do you live by refusing to shape your decisions based on available data, some of which will be supplied by other people?

Thinking for yourself involves reviewing, critiquing, and incorporating/synthesizing the thoughts of others. Or did you educate yourself in a completely deductive fashion mentally with no empirical input from the outside world?

[kidalutz]

So do you live by refusing to shape your decisions based on available data, some of which will be supplied by other people?

Thinking for yourself involves reviewing, critiquing, and incorporating/synthesizing the thoughts of others. Or did you educate yourself in a completely deductive fashion mentally with no empirical input from the outside world?

I fully believe the only real data comes from experiencing for oneself and ignoring outside input outside of a proceed with caution.

[LariaKirin]

I would *love* to know what "content" magically un-clunks a kit. Maybe we'll get a boss that temporarily changes healer hotbars to contain varied, interesting gameplay!

Just because it's called Ultimate does not mean it does not suffer from the same healing design issues as Savage.

What if you design content in such a way that dropping an OGCD or a Regen does not take care of the whole thing?

Can you really not think of ways to force healers to use some GCDs?

[Gaethan_Tessula]

I fully believe the only real data comes from experiencing for oneself and ignoring outside input outside of a proceed with caution.

I see, I've been doing scientific research wrong since my undergraduate days! I need to repeat every experiment ever done in my field myself, because I cannot rely on the papers and work of colleagues!

Be right back, building time machine so I can actually witness paleoecosystems firsthand instead of relying on meta-synthesis of paleoecological, functional morphometrics, paleoclimate proxy, and depositional environment studies.

I'll have to reinvent physics starting from Aristotle first though.

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Listening to other people is not the failing so many seem to think it is. Working in the sciences, where a given person can only be a true expert in a very narrow field of study, has taught me respect for the consensus of experts from other fields without being blindly obeisant (neontologists can run all the models they want, if it doesn't line up with the fossil record I'm gonna be skeptical of it).

[Kabooa]

I see, I've been doing scientific research wrong since my undergraduate days! I need to repeat every experiment ever done in my field myself, because I cannot rely on the papers and work of colleagues!

Be right back, building time machine so I can actually witness paleoecosystems firsthand instead of relying on meta-synthesis of paleoecological, functional morphometrics, paleoclimate proxy, and depositional environment studies.

I'll have to reinvent physics starting from Aristotle first though.

-------------------

Listening to other people is not the failing so many seem to think it is. Working in the sciences, where a given person can only be a true expert in a very narrow field of study, has taught me to respect for the consensus of experts from other fields without being blindly obeisant (neontologists can run all the models they want, if it doesn't line up with the fossil record I'm gonna be skeptical of it).

This subforum has like three experts on it.

[Kuurei]

Just because it's called Ultimate does not mean it does not suffer from the same healing design issues as Savage.

What if you design content in such a way that dropping an OGCD or a Regen does not take care of the whole thing?

Can you really not think of ways to force healers to use some GCDs?

No, these people cannot really think of this. They're the same people that immediately fall victim to their initial reactions when something's reported on the news, and still won't change their stance even when new facts come to light.

Yes, there's stuff that looks annoying overall in the changes. Yes, people are going to be mad. Yes, things might suck for a bit. But the developers gather playdata, as well as feedback AFTER the changes have launched, and make adjustments based on what they feel is necessary.

This process will always repeat itself, and it's always the same people every time reacting before the paint dries.