We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[LariaKirin]

That's a poor strawman and you know it.

If healing is pure agony in all casual content you do daily, and only fun in latest Savage/EX/Ultimate that you do a few times a week, it's bad design.

I suggest you review what a strawman is. Let's try again:

The problem seems to be that the class developer team of four people quite obviously only have a vague idea about how healers work in theory, and they made healer changes for ShB based on that.

Most healers are upset by these changes, because they know the changes are awful, based on the fact that they have intimate knowledge on how healing works in practice in all content.

These developers, who "only have a vague idea about how healers work in theory", are designing the changes in the context of SHB - on which they have full knowledge.

Most healers upset by the changes, who have intimate knowledge on how healing works in practice in all content, except in the context of SHB somehow know that the changes are awful for SHB, the context in which they are designed.


Now to clarify, I don't know what it's going to be like in the new content, because I don't know the new content. It could be perfect, or it could be a shitshow. Nobody knows until we see it.

But if you look at the forum, everyone apparently knows everything. The OP is a perfect example: "Healers are just not fun anymore... Healer gameplay is just boring... Healers are doomed". This person has already made up his mind. He has already played the entirety of SHB in his head.

[EaMett]

Most healers upset by the changes, who have intimate knowledge on how healing works in practice in all content, except in the context of SHB somehow know that the changes are awful for SHB, the context in which they are designed.

We know what they are compared to varied levels of healing requirements. If your changes fail even in the face of ultimate content levels of healing then it's a safe bet ShB won't provide enough healing for it to be worthwhile.

[LariaKirin]

We know what they are compared to varied levels of healing requirements. If your changes fail even in the face of ultimate content levels of healing then it's a safe bet ShB won't provide enough healing for it to be worthwhile.

It would be a good metric, if the current Ultimates were designed in the context of SHB.

[EaMett]

It would be a good metric, if the current Ultimates were designed in the context of SHB.

Just because it's called Ultimate does not mean it does not suffer from the same healing design issues as Savage.

What if you design content in such a way that dropping an OGCD or a Regen does not take care of the whole thing?

A few things:

- Ultimate requires roughly double the healing of Final omega and this is at lower ilvl synch. Keep that in mind. Everything else in the game requires less healing than final omega obviously so that's putting the bar high.
- Damage output in some phases are back to back and force GCDs. Even then you can optimize to hardly require any despite the intense checks. Shb toolkit will make this even easier.
- Shb will never require that much healing. Ever. (outside of ultimate of course)
- Even if it did, there's no effective damage spread that would keep us from optimizing via DPS. Short of perhaps putting absolutely all the damage into boss auto-attacks, or some strong constant party dot.. Maybe then we would have to chain spam. But obviously we know that's not happening, just from the mana management perspective.
- They've said things would be easy in a much clearer fashion than the elusive mention to higher healing requirements.

Yes we aren't 100% certain, but at this stage we're getting pretty darn close to knowing what to expect.

Besides like others have said. Your comment doesn't take into account the real gripes we have with the downtime toolkits. Which can't be fixed with content in the first place.

[LariaKirin]

A few things:

- Ultimate requires roughly double the healing of Final omega and this is at lower ilvl synch. Keep that in mind. Everything else in the game requires less healing than final omega obviously so that's putting the bar high.
- Damage output in some phases are back to back and force GCDs. Even then you can optimize to hardly require any despite the intense checks. Shb toolkit will make this even easier.
- Shb will never require that much healing. Ever. (outside of ultimate of course)
- Even if it did, there's no effective damage spread that would keep us from optimizing via DPS. Short of perhaps putting absolutely all the damage into boss auto-attacks, or some strong constant party dot.. Maybe then we would have to chain spam. But obviously we know that's not happening, just from the mana management perspective.
- They've said things would be easy in a much clearer fashion than the elusive mention to higher healing requirements.

Yes we aren't 100% certain, but at this stage we're getting pretty darn close to knowing what to expect.

Besides like others have said. Your comment doesn't take into account the real gripes we have with the downtime toolkits. Which can't be fixed with content in the first place.

But bigger numbers is not the only way. I'd argue it's the worst way.

Splitting the party is one way:
Imagine Hello World mechanics hitting harder, akin to the short stack, so that everyone is in danger, not just the short stack and the solo stack tank. While this is a "bigger numbers" adjustment, it would be just as trivial if the party was stacked up. But everyone is spread out. When's the last time you had to single target heal anyone other than a tank?

Adding uncertainty is another way:
Imagine Alexander (Ultimate). You get to play with time, so here's a random suggestion: Alexander picks random points (within reason) in a time window, say [0m, 2m]. Whatever HP the party was missing at these points is added to a total, which is then released as a raidwide in one of his attacks.

That's just a few shitty examples. Obviously this is pretty hard to design, because the healer kits are too strong, especially when they hit the entire party. So now that I think about it, gutting the hell out of OGCD potencies would be a good first step.

[EaMett]

But bigger numbers is not the only way. I'd argue it's the worst way.

Splitting the party is one way:
Imagine Hello World mechanics hitting harder, akin to the short stack, so that everyone is in danger, not just the short stack and the solo stack tank. While this is a "bigger numbers" adjustment, it would be just as trivial if the party was stacked up. But everyone is spread out. When's the last time you had to single target heal anyone other than a tank?

Adding uncertainty is another way:
Imagine Alexander (Ultimate). You get to play with time, so here's a random suggestion: Alexander picks random points (within reason) in a time window, say [0m, 2m]. Whatever HP the party was missing at these points is added to a total, which is then released as a raidwide in one of his attacks.

That's just a few shitty examples. Obviously this is pretty hard to design, because the healer kits are too strong, especially when they hit the entire party. So now that I think about it, gutting the hell out of OGCD potencies would be a good first step.

The main point to keep in mind while thinking about all this is that most increases in healing will also raise the level cap required for healers (whether it's flat or by splitting the group). While I certainly wouldn't mind, it's worth noting that one of the arguments in favor of the recent changes is that it makes the jobs easier on people who already struggle with the content (or some jobs because of complexity). And although most of us disagree with the way they have handled it, it's still telling of their desire to keep things other than ultimate super accessible. That and their recent announcement of the level of difficulty expected from the savage tier.

Yes you're right that the ogcd kits are too strong. Actually, all healing potencies could probably be cut in half. But the solution of nerfing any of these just doesn't mesh well with keeping things accessible. And it works even less with the 6 years of content already in the game. That's also why a significant rework of mana management can't be accomplished either.

The bottom line is that we're going to be stuck with healing downtime. If SE makes another MMO they'll be able to review the entire system, but until then that's how things are.

The current situation is that downtime is basically using 3 main dps skills and having another toolkit to weave. AST has cards to weave, SCH has dps skills to weave, WHM has nothing (and WHM have been asking for this for a while now). Obviously moving forward AST retains some version of this, SCH has traded those DPS skills for faerie skills and the complaint is that we will not need to use them that often so it's a downgrade to gameplay (that and some incorrect potencies will make gameplay clunky), and WHM still doesn't have anything.

There have been quite a few viable suggestions in the forums about what to do with that downtime. Imagine AST having cast time to their cards and draws etc.. So long as the cards provide higher support than the personal dps lost from drawing and using them, you'll make use of them. This significantly reduces the amount of downtime spent DPSing and makes AST feel more like a healer and support than a glorified DPS.
The thing is, SE either doesn't care for that kind of design, can't come up with options for the other healers, thinks it's too big of a change, etc.. etc.. Instead they decided to try and force us into healing with things like not having a stack dump, or using lilies on healing before you can use the extra dps skill, etc.. Obviously these skills will just overheal or not be used (based off of ultimate healing numbers). Hence where we are now.

[Kabooa]

The thing is, SE either doesn't care for that kind of design, can't come up with options for the other healers, thinks it's too big of a change, etc.. etc..

Did you ever consider that maybe the feedback from the forums plays a part?

I'm fairly certain for every person who would like spending a GCD for card management you'd have another making enough whine posts about 'Muh Malefic' to drown it out.

[LariaKirin]

The bottom line is that we're going to be stuck with healing downtime. If SE makes another MMO they'll be able to review the entire system, but until then that's how things are.

The current situation is that downtime is basically using 3 main dps skills and having another toolkit to weave. AST has cards to weave, SCH has dps skills to weave, WHM has nothing (and WHM have been asking for this for a while now). Obviously moving forward AST retains some version of this, SCH has traded those DPS skills for faerie skills and the complaint is that we will not need to use them that often so it's a downgrade to gameplay (that and some incorrect potencies will make gameplay clunky), and WHM still doesn't have anything.

There have been quite a few viable suggestions in the forums about what to do with that downtime. Imagine AST having cast time to their cards and draws etc.. So long as the cards provide higher support than the personal dps lost from drawing and using them, you'll make use of them. This significantly reduces the amount of downtime spent DPSing and makes AST feel more like a healer and support than a glorified DPS.
The thing is, SE either doesn't care for that kind of design, can't come up with options for the other healers, thinks it's too big of a change, etc.. etc.. Instead they decided to try and force us into healing with things like not having a stack dump, or using lilies on healing before you can use the extra dps skill, etc.. Obviously these skills will just overheal or not be used (based off of ultimate healing numbers). Hence where we are now.

Obviously you cannot completely remove healing downtime, it's an unrealistic thing to expect.

You're read some of my other posts in which I say why I think ED is the only ability we lost that is worth anything. Having a few different dps buttons to press (in the case of SCH) does not change much of anything. Healing downtime remains the same and all you're left with is dps button bloat. If Miasma, Miasma II and Shadow Flare changes your perception of healer gameplay from snoozefest to engaging, then you'd probably be better served playing a dps class.

The likelihood of them adding a complex dps rotation to healers is very low. I don't care about these 3 skills and their removal makes me optimistic. It's easier to come up with something new when you don't have to fit it into an existing mess.

Returning to downtime - the AST suggestion sounds good. I still think different content design to reduce downtime, which may or may not happen for Eden, is one of the most important things.

But this sort of discussion is better saved for post-launch feedback, when it actually matters.