We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[Rockette]

Do you know why the "Wait til you play" argument keeps popping up? Because it's generally common sense and common decency. The real world equivalent would be like making a reservation at a new restaurant and before you even go and experience it for yourself you log onto yelp and bash the place because you heard some people say a few negative things about it and have no clue if they've even been there themselves. You don't know anything yet, you don't see the full picture yet. You feel like you have a grasp on it, and these meltdowns and childish demands for replies and expectations of the devs to drop everything they are doing to answer these complaints, and before this gets out of hand when I say you I don't mean you personally I mean the healer outrage crowd in general. just so that's clear. Machinists did the same thing in stormblood, they beat their chests, blew up these forums, everyone said it was pointless but they continued to do so, the difference being machinists actually had gameplay proof and tons of experience with the job to be able to bring real feedback to the dev team.

So why yes it seems like dire straights, there's a thing called empathy and understanding.

This would be relevant if it were the first expansion and we hadn't been down this road before.

[reyre]

Yes. Apparently the forums don't think it's a good idea to check the content where the changes would be relevant before picking up the pitchforks and start poking away.
"Shoot first, ask questions later" seems to be the dominant mindset based off a strong bias that "because nothing changed before, nothing will change now!". (If everything worked that way, nothing would ever change. But that doesn't seem to be wildly understood.)

And here I thought people learned a lesson with Gordias and were shown how badly community's feedback could negatively impact something before it's even out. I guess I was wrong.

Explain this to me because perhaps i misunderstood somenthing, you are saying that you should not use past experiences as a basis to predict future outcomes, at least not use them as ENOUGH proof to acertain the future of anything, yet you use the gordias as reason enough to make the point that feedback can impact negatively this expact...dont you see the contradiction there?
If you can use past experiences as evidence or proof of anything then so can others.

[Seraphor]

Given that AST dps isn't really changing at all, and it's workload isn't really decreasing (you'll be just as focused on drawing the correct cards for the seals, it just won't have as much variety in their effects) then if AST is doing ok now, then I don't see why it won't play pretty much the same in ShB.
If AST is ok, why would the other two be any worse?
WHM has lost... one DoT.
SCH has been hit the hardest, but ultimately, as long as their dps output is the same, it's just streamlining their dps skills...

[LariaKirin]

What was plan and design reason behind SB WHM lilies? Was people's feedback after they saw 10 minutes of its footage wrong? Did their feedback change after people had time to play through the expansion?

What feedback, specifically? There's this neat thing people like to do, which is - remember what they were right about and forget what they were wrong about. And here we are today, remembering how right everyone was pre-Stormblood.

Now let me ask you this ... As a result of feedback:

Did anything change about lillies before Stormblood launch?
Did anything change about lillies after Stormblood launch?

[Shurrikhan]

Given that AST dps isn't really changing at all, and it's workload isn't really decreasing (you'll be just as focused on drawing the correct cards for the seals, it just won't have as much variety in their effects) then if AST is doing ok now, then I don't see why it won't play pretty much the same in ShB.
If AST is ok, why would the other two be any worse?
WHM has lost... one DoT.
SCH has been hit the hardest, but ultimately, as long as their dps output is the same, it's just streamlining their dps skills...

There's a difference between "workload" in terms of APM (though that will be diminished too, given the loss of RR) and in terms of the combined number and depth of potential processes or interactions into which the player would be engaged. Losing my currents cards costs me agency and that loss of agency, in turn, reduces the number of control vectors I'd be expected to accommodate for/in optimal play.

The impact is limited in boss-stands-in-center-of-the-30-yard-radius-circle-most-of-the-time-even-if-the-tank-were-to-try-fruitlessly-to-move-it-elsewhere-because-its-prescripted-rotations-will-also-force-its-positions-so-really-what-are-you-really-even-doing-except-for-hitting-counter-buttons-on-schedules-and-hopefully-having-to-manage-movement-around-a-few-random-elements-that-likewise-appear-on-precise-schedules Savage raids, sure, but... should we axe any and all toolkit components that don't make a great showing in the dim light of stale copy-paste core fight designs? You certainly wouldn't make light of the cards, if only properly balanced, in something like Mythic+, for instance...

[Seraphor]

There's a difference between "workload" in terms of APM (though that will be diminished too, given the loss of RR) and in terms of the combined number and depth of potential processes or interactions into which the player would be engaged. Losing my currents cards costs me agency and that loss of agency, in turn, reduces the number of control vectors I'd be expected to accommodate for/in optimal play.

The impact is limited in boss-stands-in-center-of-the-30-yard-radius-circle-most-of-the-time-even-if-the-tank-were-to-try-fruitlessly-to-move-it-elsewhere-because-its-prescripted-rotations-will-also-force-its-positions-so-really-what-are-you-really-even-doing-except-for-hitting-counter-buttons-on-schedules-and-hopefully-having-to-manage-movement-around-a-few-random-elements-that-likewise-appear-on-precise-schedules Savage raids, sure, but... should we axe any and all toolkit components that don't make a great showing in the dim light of stale copy-paste core fight designs? You certainly wouldn't make light of the cards, if only properly balanced, in something like Mythic+, for instance...

I never said I was in favour of the way cards have been reworked, quite the opposite.
But from a practical standpoint, AST DPS hasn't taken a hit, and APM hasn't changed too drastically.
So this whole "healers will have nothing to do, SE thinks healers should just heal" idea is nonsense.
We're not doing less things besides healing, we're just doing different, perhaps less interesting things.

[Deceptus]

You're very unlikely to get anything except an "I know" from Yoshi P if the subject comes up. That's all he really said in Stormblood aside from "Wait till 70."

"Trust me"

4. ALL JOBS ARE BORING IN LOW LVL CONTENT! Its nothing new with healers in Shb. Most Jobs are boring till 60 atm and with increased lvl cap its probably getting worse.

This should never be an acceptable outcome. A majority of the game is the leveling process. If it isn't "fun" they the developers are doing something extremely wrong.

[Fyce]

Explain this to me because perhaps i misunderstood somenthing, you are saying that you should not use past experiences as a basis to predict future outcomes, at least not use them as ENOUGH proof to acertain the future of anything, yet you use the gordias as reason enough to make the point that feedback can impact negatively this expact...dont you see the contradiction there?
If you can use past experiences as evidence or proof of anything then so can others.

If I claim that the door can be opened, I just have to succeed at opening it once to demonstrate that the claim is right.
If I claim that the door cannot be opened and make the prediction that it never will be, trying to open it once is definitly not enough. Especially if I managed to open it before (hello Heavensward).

So, if you don't understand that the process of proving that something can happen and the process of proving that something cannot happen require a completly different approach and set of proofs, then I don't know what to tell you. That's the basis of the scientific methodology and logic to prove and disprove stuff.

All "proofs" or examples are not equal. I don't know why you'd think they are.
As I said, nothing would ever change if past examples were enough to show what will (or won't, in this case) happen. Yet, the reality is very different.

[kidalutz]

Hey Square Enix,

Healers are just not fun anymore. Shouldn't a game feel fun for the players and not exhausting? Nobody is happy with spamming one damage skill for ever in most of the content. Sure there are fights where you need to heal more but that's a very low percentage of content. I heard many opinions from healer mains and many of them are considering to change to tank or dps. Why? Because healer gameplay is just boring. Do square enix know that the queues will be extremely long for tanks and dps, when many healers are changing mains. And I don't think someone would start healing job when there is no new job and the current healers gameplay is to spam one button. Please think about how you are treating healers in this game and what exactly the reason is to simplify them to a level where it is no more fun to play. We are not dumb. We want to learn a job and have fun be getting better in it. Healers are doomed.

Dear people type person, I know this may come as something of a shock but nothing warrants an official response aside from these are the changes for right now. They will very likely be changed over the lifetime of the expansion. and if queues take too long there's the trust system.

[Sathona]

1. WHM is basically the same
2. AST has a different card system but dps is absolutly the same
3. SCH got nerfed... yes... if its no fun at lvl 80, then complain and/or switch jobs.
4. ALL JOBS ARE BORING IN LOW LVL CONTENT! Its nothing new with healers in Shb. Most Jobs are boring till 60 atm and with increased lvl cap its probably getting worse.


OMG can we please play the jobs first and complain later?
Sch got Miasma II back after a month in SB because we actually played the job and then gave feedback.

And i assume im getting called a "white knight" soon, so we need a word for "opposite white knight"... someone who always sees and complains about the worst possible outcome before even trying it...

I so agree with this. Whats the point of not having played the class yourself and only seeing some tool tips?
Everyone is acting like they already played lvl 80 SCH/SCH in the harder content ShB can offer and im asking,how?
Maining doesnt mean anything. You have more insight cause u main it? sure. but did u play lvl 80 healer? no

If you get called White Knight for being logical idk what to say lmao