We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[Laphael]

Hey Square Enix,

Healers are just not fun anymore. ... Healers are doomed.

1. WHM is basically the same
2. AST has a different card system but dps is absolutly the same
3. SCH got nerfed... yes... if its no fun at lvl 80, then complain and/or switch jobs.
4. ALL JOBS ARE BORING IN LOW LVL CONTENT! Its nothing new with healers in Shb. Most Jobs are boring till 60 atm and with increased lvl cap its probably getting worse.


OMG can we please play the jobs first and complain later?
Sch got Miasma II back after a month in SB because we actually played the job and then gave feedback.

And i assume im getting called a "white knight" soon, so we need a word for "opposite white knight"... someone who always sees and complains about the worst possible outcome before even trying it...

[Reiryuu]

And i assume im getting called a "white knight" soon, so we need a word for "opposite white knight"... someone who always sees and complains about the worst possible outcome before even trying it...

Only for it to be taken out again this time around for... reasons so they can get it back again once people complain....? Look. "Wait until you play" was used last expansion with WHM. Where did WHM end up? Exactly where people thought it would as soon as the media tour was over. Same tired arugments. Yes. We know SE's history. And they repeat their history and mistakes often especially when it comes to healers. There is plenty of evidence coming out from E3 and the media tour and you're like "Nope, can't see it. Gotta touch it first." It's like a police officer saying "That smoking gun obviously hasn't been fired recently because I haven't touched it yet."

1) WHM is basically the same-- but this is an expansion, and many jobs have been given new and different tools... shouldn't WHMs feel different in similar ways? I could play WHM the same as I do now without even using the new skills that's how uninteresting they are. And the thing is, I would probably do just fine in ShB content from what evidence is showing us currently. That's pretty sad.

2) AST has a different, less interesting card system. Exactly what people are complaining about. DPS isn't really the same since Lord was changed. (I used it a lot on AST when I got it at least >.>; ) Then they got more WHM clone skills when they should have tried to differentiate the two classes more.

3) Why do SCH have to wait till 80 to determine if something is boring? They can determine that now just by looking at how often they use the skills that aren't there anymore.

4) WHY DO HEALERS HAVE TO BE BORING AT HIGH LEVELS TOO?! RANDOM CAPS LOCK!!!11!

[Laphael]

Only for it to be taken out again this time around for... reasons so they can get it back again once people complain....? Look. "Wait until you play" was used last expansion with WHM. Where did WHM end up? Exactly where people thought it would as soon as the media tour was over. Same tired arugments. Yes. We know SE's history. And they repeat their history and mistakes often especially when it comes to healers. There is plenty of evidence coming out from E3 and the media tour and you're like "Nope, can't see it. Gotta touch it first." It's like a police officer saying "That smoking gun obviously hasn't been fired recently because I haven't touched it yet."

1) WHM is basically the same-- but this is an expansion, and many jobs have been given new and different tools... shouldn't WHMs feel different in similar ways? I could play WHM the same as I do now without even using the new skills that's how uninteresting they are. And the thing is, I would probably do just fine in ShB content from what evidence is showing us currently. That's pretty sad.

2) AST has a different, less interesting card system. Exactly what people are complaining about. DPS isn't really the same since Lord was changed. (I used it a lot on AST when I got it at least >.>; ) Then they got more WHM clone skills when they should have tried to differentiate the two classes more.

3) Why do SCH have to wait till 80 to determine if something is boring? They can determine that now just by looking at how often they use the skills that aren't there anymore.

4) WHY DO HEALERS HAVE TO BE BORING AT HIGH LEVELS TOO?! RANDOM CAPS LOCK!!!11!

It´s almost funny.

Fuuuu they didn´t change WHM enough
Fuuuu they canged SCH to much
Fuuuu they changed AST

like what? XD

[EaMett]

It´s almost funny.

Fuuuu they didn´t change WHM enough
Fuuuu they canged SCH to much
Fuuuu they changed AST

like what? XD

Late to the party but you know there's a difference between not making a needed change and then them making the exact opposite change? You can't really play the "we want change...We don't want change" card because we never asked for "change" we asked for a "specific change" and instead got an "opposite change"

[Darkpaw]

-snip-

Do you know why the "Wait til you play" argument keeps popping up? Because it's generally common sense and common decency. The real world equivalent would be like making a reservation at a new restaurant and before you even go and experience it for yourself you log onto yelp and bash the place because you heard some people say a few negative things about it and have no clue if they've even been there themselves. You don't know anything yet, you don't see the full picture yet. You feel like you have a grasp on it, and these meltdowns and childish demands for replies and expectations of the devs to drop everything they are doing to answer these complaints, and before this gets out of hand when I say you I don't mean you personally I mean the healer outrage crowd in general. just so that's clear. Machinists did the same thing in stormblood, they beat their chests, blew up these forums, everyone said it was pointless but they continued to do so, the difference being machinists actually had gameplay proof and tons of experience with the job to be able to bring real feedback to the dev team.

So why yes it seems like dire straights, there's a thing called empathy and understanding. The healers should try to look at this from the dev team's perspective. See why they made these changes. What caused it, what can be the future of it. And do it with an open mind. Don't just scream homogenization or whatever other buzzword has been floating around. Really try to put yourself in their shoes. If you were a developer and you had to make all of these jobs accessible to ALL types of players.. from the most casual to the most hardcore.. what would you have done differently. how would you balance it amongst each of the other healers and against all of the other roles. Come up with solutions not complaints. VIABLE solutions that don't just cater to one crowd but everyone.

[Reiryuu]

Do you know why the "Wait til you play" argument keeps popping up? Because it's generally common sense and common decency. The real world equivalent would be like making a reservation at a new restaurant and before you even go and experience it for yourself you log onto yelp and bash the place because you heard some people say a few negative things about it and have no clue if they've even been there themselves.

A restaurant that I have been eating at for 4+ years, have seen the service, have been witnessing the lower quality food and seeing the new "cow pie" menu and not wanting to consume it, you mean?

It´s almost funny.

Fuuuu they didn´t change WHM enough
Fuuuu they canged SCH to much
Fuuuu they changed AST

like what? XD

False rage much? I don't know why you think I was sounding like I was mad my caps were just mirroring yours, but the point stands. RDM got a whole new set of AoEs this expansion. WHM got... more of exactly the same that it's already had plus a skill that combines 2 skills that got taken away from it as its level 80 skill this expansion. You may think that's awesome. I don't. I don't need to be level 80 to experience these spells to know that I really don't need any of them. Will I use them? Maybe? May as well, but they certainly don't add anything to the job. Is that not what we should expect from an expansion? Expanding on what a job can do?

[reyre]

See why they made these changes. What caused it, what can be the future of it. And do it with an open mind. Don't just scream homogenization or whatever other buzzword has been floating around. Really try to put yourself in their shoes. If you were a developer and you had to make all of these jobs accessible to ALL types of players.. from the most casual to the most hardcore.. what would you have done differently. how would you balance it amongst each of the other healers and against all of the other roles. Come up with solutions not complaints. VIABLE solutions that don't just cater to one crowd but everyone.

Well if i were to put myself in their shoes, i would not try to make jobs accessible to every player. That seems to be a poor desing choice, one that is impossible to fufill and one that delivers mediocrity. So i would not havedone that for starters, besides the game suffers from a severe issue that has nothing to do with the jobs themselves, it is to randomly desing after a point, they added a pletora of options on how to tackle the battle content, but the battle content itself doesnt support it, let me put an example why is it that SCH or AST are more desiered in parties? is it because their themes? or their incredible healing ability? The game itself its designed to preffer dps over everything, not a bad idea on itself but limits severly other aproaches to any given encounter.

It seems, to me, that they dont create content allowing the player the "freedom" to explore and maximize the skill set of its job/class: Jobs>content. But they do it the other way around Content>jobs, this is not a wrong aproach however is a limiting one, simply because you dont have static jobs, so as the jobs "grow, change or evolve" the content should do the same, however it does not the content and the demands of said content remain the same, but the jobs change. Inherently this would make 2 outcomes posible either the content is easier or harder (different degrees of each) but like you said they wanted to make their classes, and by extention the content, accesible to all types of players, so automatically it cant be harder. the jobs will continue to grow easier, because the content wont change but the clasess will and since they want everyone to have access to all jobs... well you get the point the devs have gotten themselves to the point were they are, the lack of new ways to tackle content (as a core issue) cannot be fixed with just changin a skill, that will simply return it to aprevious state not a dressing the problem. We are 3 expantions in and what worked in 2.x cannot work on 5.x, because the clasess have changed, but the content have had little to no change.

So if i were a dev that would be Job number one, i mean why do you think BLU failed, the class was different enough but the content was (and is still) not there for it. (I mean this is one of the pletora of reasons why BLU failed)

[Rockette]

Do you know why the "Wait til you play" argument keeps popping up? Because it's generally common sense and common decency. The real world equivalent would be like making a reservation at a new restaurant and before you even go and experience it for yourself you log onto yelp and bash the place because you heard some people say a few negative things about it and have no clue if they've even been there themselves. You don't know anything yet, you don't see the full picture yet. You feel like you have a grasp on it, and these meltdowns and childish demands for replies and expectations of the devs to drop everything they are doing to answer these complaints, and before this gets out of hand when I say you I don't mean you personally I mean the healer outrage crowd in general. just so that's clear. Machinists did the same thing in stormblood, they beat their chests, blew up these forums, everyone said it was pointless but they continued to do so, the difference being machinists actually had gameplay proof and tons of experience with the job to be able to bring real feedback to the dev team.

So why yes it seems like dire straights, there's a thing called empathy and understanding.

This would be relevant if it were the first expansion and we hadn't been down this road before.

[Sathona]

1. WHM is basically the same
2. AST has a different card system but dps is absolutly the same
3. SCH got nerfed... yes... if its no fun at lvl 80, then complain and/or switch jobs.
4. ALL JOBS ARE BORING IN LOW LVL CONTENT! Its nothing new with healers in Shb. Most Jobs are boring till 60 atm and with increased lvl cap its probably getting worse.


OMG can we please play the jobs first and complain later?
Sch got Miasma II back after a month in SB because we actually played the job and then gave feedback.

And i assume im getting called a "white knight" soon, so we need a word for "opposite white knight"... someone who always sees and complains about the worst possible outcome before even trying it...

I so agree with this. Whats the point of not having played the class yourself and only seeing some tool tips?
Everyone is acting like they already played lvl 80 SCH/SCH in the harder content ShB can offer and im asking,how?
Maining doesnt mean anything. You have more insight cause u main it? sure. but did u play lvl 80 healer? no

If you get called White Knight for being logical idk what to say lmao