The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[Hash_Browns]

Heh. Yep, I thought so. You're a broken record and you can't even back yourself up. What a waste of time talking to you.


I'll reiterate for everyone else and get back on topic: Every single role is important. ALL of them. DPS, Healer, and Tank. We all depend on each other, and if one isn't pulling their weight, we all suffer. DPS? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and tank. Healer? The run goes slower and taxes the tank and dps. Tank? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and dps. The name of the game is cooperation. Tank is supposed to aggro. Let them aggro. DPS is supposed to do damage. Let them damage. Healer is supposed to heal. Let them heal. When everyone works together we all benefit. Running in front of the tank and grabbing aggro is not working together. If you're impatient or feel you can go faster, ask first. If the tank refuses, leave or deal with it. It's the same as the tank asking dps to do more aoes. If they refuse, either he/she should leave or deal with it. Breaking the mold without warning just leads to frustration and potential loss of time.

Funny thing is - this is all coming from a DPS main. Don't be dick. Follow the tank's lead and let them get punched while you do the punching. That's what they're there for.

I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

[Canadane]

And again i do full pulls but if the healer and dps suck i am not doing full pulls its that simple.

OK sounds good.

[Kaylessa]

Tanking as a DPS isn't hard in leveling dungeons at all.

Depends which leveling dungeon we're talking about. Some are really easy, but some are Aurum Vale where despite the best intentions the party will sometimes accidentally pull half the first room and get obliterated ... even with a sturdy tank and healer :P

[Vahlnir]

I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

If they are being detrimental to the group's progress (not being able beat a boss due to failed mechanics or a lack of tanking, wiping the group repeatedly on groups of trash due to a lack of skill or possible trolling, etc) a kick is justified because the group literally can't progress because of the individual. If they are simply being slow...not really able to kick them without risking punishment from a GM. That leaves 2 possibilities, as the person you replied to already mentioned: leave or deal with it.

[linay]

if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons

I guess I'll change to a lalafell if I ever tank.

[SoulEchelon]

I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

Then good luck with the tank queue. It's a rare proc, and this current negative mentality towards tanks is the exact reason why.

Edit: I would instead propose working with the tank if by chance (as Vahlnir stated above) they're having trouble with the mechanics of a dungeon. That probably means they're either new to the dungeon or a new tank. Being instantly negative and demanding them to be kicked isn't motivation. It's detrimental, and could potentially lead to one less tank and quite possibly, one less player. We should be working together, not hurting each other. But hey - gotta get through that dungeon in 10 minutes flat or everyone but you sucks and deserves to be banned from ever playing with you again, right?

[Hash_Browns]

Then good luck with the tank queue. It's a rare proc, and this current negative mentality towards tanks is the exact reason why.

Edit: I would instead propose working with the tank if by chance (as Vahlnir stated above) they're having trouble with the mechanics of a dungeon. That probably means they're either new to the dungeon or a new tank. Being instantly negative and demanding them to be kicked isn't motivation. It's detrimental, and could potentially lead to one less tank and quite possibly, one less player. We should be working together, not hurting each other. But hey - gotta get through that dungeon in 10 minutes flat or everyone but you sucks and deserves to be banned from ever playing with you again, right?

I mean, yes the queues are great for me. So I have no problem with it being a rare(ish) role.

[Vahlnir]

Edit: I would instead propose working with the tank if by chance (as Vahlnir stated above) they're having trouble with the mechanics of a dungeon. That probably means they're either new to the dungeon or a new tank. Being instantly negative and demanding them to be kicked isn't motivation. It's detrimental, and could potentially lead to one less tank and quite possibly, one less player. We should be working together, not hurting each other. But hey - gotta get through that dungeon in 10 minutes flat or everyone but you sucks and deserves to be banned from ever playing with you again, right?

I probably should have clarified a bit, tbh. If they are new then yeah, people should probably be willing to help them understand the mechanics of bosses. No group should kick a tank on the first failed attempt, probably not the 3rd or 4th either. I'd say a kick is justified only in extreme cases (which I have encountered though exceedingly rare, like winning the lottery kind of rare) where the group is stuck on a boss, specifically the final boss, and the timer is actually dwindling away to the point that if a new tank isn't brought in, the dungeon will be a total bust. I've had to initiate a vote kick on 2 tanks in my years of playing, and they were both for that reason. I felt bad, really bad even, because every attempt to help them got us nowhere. But...there was also no sense in letting 3 other people fail the dungeon and get absolutely nothing for their time/trouble, so unfortunately they had to go.

[Awha]

Heh. Yep, I thought so. You're a broken record and you can't even back yourself up. What a waste of time talking to you.


I'll reiterate for everyone else and get back on topic: Every single role is important. ALL of them. DPS, Healer, and Tank. We all depend on each other, and if one isn't pulling their weight, we all suffer. DPS? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and tank. Healer? The run goes slower and taxes the tank and dps. Tank? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and dps. The name of the game is cooperation. Tank is supposed to aggro. Let them aggro. DPS is supposed to do damage. Let them damage. Healer is supposed to heal. Let them heal. When everyone works together we all benefit. Running in front of the tank and grabbing aggro is not working together. If you're impatient or feel you can go faster, ask first. If the tank refuses, leave or deal with it. It's the same as the tank asking dps to do more aoes. If they refuse, either he/she should leave or deal with it. Breaking the mold without warning just leads to frustration and potential loss of time.

Funny thing is - this is all coming from a DPS main. Don't be dick. Follow the tank's lead and let them get punched while you do the punching. That's what they're there for.

Honestly do not know how to capture video content never really had a need to set up or learn how to do so. I am simply speaking from my experience and I mentioned in earlier posts as a tank my basic function is to grab aggro and hold it. And I also said tank role inherently does not have anymore importance then another role, and if push comes to shove a group can progress without a tank very rarely does a group ever crumples or votes to abandon the run because of the lack of tank. I personally have never ran into that situation while healing or dps. Sure it takes time to clear the content, but I never said a dps or healer is the optimal replacement for a tank. Nor did I say like it seems you think I did that large pulls are solely based off the tanks ability. Figured the general approved points were that everything is group dependent and success is a group effort. Was not sure I had to spell that out. Point remains if a dps or healer pull extra mobs for the healer as a tank all I have to do is use an aoe to get aggro. If the group wipes it is either because of me, healer, dps or all three. Though generally I have never really ran into an issue where dps or healers pulling for me has caused a group wipe.

In the end we just have different mindsets if a dps does not aoe I would remove them group for that, or if a healer is simply healing and not doing damage between heals then I would also start a vote to remove them. Granted, normally I tank, but I also have a discord group I can ask for filling a role. If they vote does not pass then either I adapt or leave depends on my mood. I will not force large pulls if I know mu group cannot handle it but nor would I simply sit back and do small pulls if I know the group can handle it. Sometimes I will stay if people are new or something. When I started to play FFXIV I told groups up front I was new and if they wanted to do large pulls I would try my best to keep up and if the pulled failed because of me I would simply leave on my own because I personally hate feeling like dead weight, and that is my issue with single pulls I feel useless, and or bored. I also rarely ever just sit around if someone goes afk I just go on ahead and pull one pack if I know I can handle it.

[SoulEchelon]

I mean, yes the queues are great for me. So I have no problem with it being a rare(ish) role.

So you kick the tank and then realize no new tank will be coming any time soon. But that's okay. You're a healer. You can just leave and re-queue.

And also leave the poor two DPSes that will need to wait in queue for another 20+minutes because you had a beef with a slow tank.

There's a name for people like you. But I don't feel like getting reported for saying it. I'm just going to stop talking to you.