The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[NanaWiloh]

I have done all three roles, I am of the mindset that a group should always pull based on what the party is capable of and not what one or two people are capable of. 1. A healer is not struggling to heal. 2. Dps are killing mobs in a timely manner. 3. Tank is not getting their face smashed in and is holding solid enimity on all targets. These are the 3 signs of a good solid group if a group is failing at any of these points or all three there is a problem.

[Hash_Browns]

Alright, go ahead and hop into Shinryu Normal with just DPS tanking. See how long it takes for them to collapse even with two healers using up every ounce of MP they have healing them while also trying to heal the rest of the group. Post a video of it. I'll bring the popcorn.

This thread is about dungeons.

[SoulEchelon]

Isn't this thread about dungeons? Last I checked that was a primaral. Are you telling me if a tank goes afk or leaves a dungeon your group simply waits around for a new tank? Normally what I do is just pull one group at a time while the group waits for a replacement.

You stated ANY normal content. Shinryu Normal is normal content. In fact, it's story content. But sure I'll let you backpedal. The Stone Vigil? Aurum Vale? Keeper of the Lake? The Vault? Baelsar's Wall? Shisui of the Violet Tides? Ala Mhigo? Ooh, The Burn would be a GREAT one for dps tanking.

Go. Do them. Post a video. Make sure to go all the way through, including all the bosses. Don't wuss out and use Titan Egi. That's a tank, and according to you - you don't need them. Now if by some insane chance you actually are able to do it, tell us how long it took and how many extremely carefully planned battles you had to do, as well as every single time a tank buster bashed your face in and wiped your party.

No, you're not going to do that because you're wrong. A tank is needed just like every other part of the holy trinity. A dps can tank a few mods with a good healer. They cannot tank a whole entire dungeon - bosses and all.

[kazzel120]

Define full pull? Cause I never said a dps can tank large packs of mobs, but a single pull yeah I can do it on a dps and I have healed dps doing it before after we went on ahead because the tank went afk. As a healer sure I had I heal more but it was not horrible.

Its not so.much about the wall to wall pull but how a dps can tank as well as any tank when in fact can they takes hits? sure but can they take them as well as a tank? No

Saying that tanks are the most unimportant roll is an outright lie. If you want faster dungeon runs a tank in fact will make it faster if they don't suck.

[Jeeqbit]

they really dont. idk where this misconception came from that all roulettes match you with first timers above all else but not even mentor roulette does that.

That's the purpose of roulettes; to help people new to content get a party to clear it with.

• New player queues for Sastasha. It eventually pulls people who are queued to leveling and mentor roulettes.
• They queue for Steps of Faith, it pulls people queued to trial and mentor roulettes to help them clear it.

On rare occasions, people might queue directly for a dungeon when it's not their first time to level alt jobs or farm something. If they are leveling an alt job they probably aren't very good with that job yet.

And that is why people complain of the skill level in dungeons. Roulettes match you with probably-low-skill, probably-first-timers queueing directly for content, by design. If you don't want to be matched with low-skill players then it's illogical to do roulettes without a premade.

The roulette you're most likely to not find first timers in as often after the first few weeks of a patch is expert roulette, but even then you will sometimes.

[Awha]

You stated ANY normal content. Shinryu Normal is normal content. In fact, it's story content. But sure I'll let you backpedal. The Stone Vigil? Aurum Vale? Keeper of the Lake? The Vault? Baelsar's Wall? Shisui of the Violet Tides? Ala Mhigo? Ooh, The Burn would be a GREAT one for dps tanking.

Go. Do them. Post a video. Make sure to go all the way through, including all the bosses. Don't wuss out and use Titan Egi. That's a tank, and according to you - you don't need them. Now if by some insane chance you actually are able to do it, tell us how long it took and how many extremely carefully planned battles you had to do, as well as every single time a tank buster bashed your face in and wiped your party.

No, you're not going to do that because you're wrong. A tank is needed just like every other part of the holy trinity. A dps can tank a few mods with a good healer. They cannot tank a whole entire dungeon - bosses and all.

I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

Also sorry given the thread was about dungeons I figured it was implied that is the content we would be referring to. I do not think I ever said it would be quicker just that a tank doing single pulls is a gimped dps, and one could argue that it would be quicker to just bring a 3rd dps.

I tank and as in have said before doing single pulls makes me feels useless I mean during single pulls you do not even need to use cooldowns all that much. One can sit in tank stance for days.

[Hash_Browns]

I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

Found myself in more then one situation where the tank left/disconnected during the dungeon, and a DPS became a tank until the tank either returned or we got a new one.

Tanking as a DPS isn't hard in leveling dungeons at all.

If a tank can't pull more then a few packs of mobs, then they might as well be a DPS.

[Awha]

Its not so.much about the wall to wall pull but how a dps can tank as well as any tank when in fact can they takes hits? sure but can they take them as well as a tank? No

Saying that tanks are the most unimportant roll is an outright lie. If you want faster dungeon runs a tank in fact will make it faster if they don't suck.

For large pulls yeah a tank is required but for single pulls a tank is not absolutely needed, sure without a tank it will require extra healing but as a tank I honestly feel next to useless only doing single pulls.

[Vahlnir]

That's the purpose of roulettes; to help people new to content get a party to clear it with.

Roulettes do not exist to help new players exclusively, but they simply do so by design.

[SoulEchelon]

I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

Heh. Yep, I thought so. You're a broken record and you can't even back yourself up. What a waste of time talking to you.


I'll reiterate for everyone else and get back on topic: Every single role is important. ALL of them. DPS, Healer, and Tank. We all depend on each other, and if one isn't pulling their weight, we all suffer. DPS? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and tank. Healer? The run goes slower and taxes the tank and dps. Tank? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and dps. The name of the game is cooperation. Tank is supposed to aggro. Let them aggro. DPS is supposed to do damage. Let them damage. Healer is supposed to heal. Let them heal. When everyone works together we all benefit. Running in front of the tank and grabbing aggro is not working together. If you're impatient or feel you can go faster, ask first. If the tank refuses, leave or deal with it. It's the same as the tank asking dps to do more aoes. If they refuse, either he/she should leave or deal with it. Breaking the mold without warning just leads to frustration and potential loss of time.

Funny thing is - this is all coming from a DPS main. Don't be dick. Follow the tank's lead and let them get punched while you do the punching. That's what they're there for.