Endgame Content, Competitive Atmosphere

[Vuen]

I wasnt aware you were the authority on what makes things fun and challenging to specific people.

Yeah, loading the claim bot and afking was skill~.

[MeowyWowie]

lol, anytime a thread about hardcore content is started it always turns into "Yea, it really takes skill to bot." It's getting old already.

How about all the casuals that bot DoL and DoH classes? That's more fair than claim botting I guess, right? It's OK for them to bot because they don't have as much time to play as some other people, right?[/sarcasm] I'm not saying that it's only casuals that are botting now, but it's a safe bet to say that many are. And if you ask me, these bots are even worse than claim bots because they affect the entire server (monopolizing), not just the small number of linkshells/players that partake in certain content.

And btw, I don't advocate botting, cheating or exploits. I'm just exposing the irony in some of these ridiculous "bot bot bot" replies that appear every time someone tries to discuss long term plans for content. People are going to bot, cheat and exploit the shit out of anything they can just to get ahead. A large portion of FFXIV's failure was because of them trying to make it as anti-bot as possible.

SE should be making examples of these cheaters by banning them, not avoiding certain types of content in an attempt to negate the need to cheat. Salvage dupe bans were a good example. Those players cheated (most of them at least), knew they were cheating and they got what was coming to them. There were some casualties, sure, but that's also the price you pay for playing with cheaters.

Can we get back to discussing future content now, and drop the f'n "bot bot bot" crap already? kthx

[NoctisUmbra]

lol, anytime a thread about hardcore content is started it always turns into "Yea, it really takes skill to bot." It's getting old already.

How about all the casuals that bot DoL and DoH classes? That's more fair than claim botting I guess, right? It's OK for them to bot because they don't have as much time to play as some other people, right?[/sarcasm] I'm not saying that it's only casuals that are botting now, but it's a safe bet to say that many are. And if you ask me, these bots are even worse than claim bots because they affect the entire server (monopolizing), not just the small number of linkshells/players that partake in certain content.

And btw, I don't advocate botting, cheating or exploits. I'm just exposing the irony in some of these ridiculous "bot bot bot" replies that appear every time someone tries to discuss long term plans for content. People are going to bot, cheat and exploit the shit out of anything they can just to get ahead. A large portion of FFXIV's failure was because of them trying to make it as anti-bot as possible.

SE should be making examples of these cheaters by banning them, not avoiding certain types of content in an attempt to negate the need to cheat. Salvage dupe bans were a good example. Those players cheated (most of them at least), knew they were cheating and they got what was coming to them. There were some casualties, sure, but that's also the price you pay for playing with cheaters.

Can we get back to discussing future content now, and drop the f'n "bot bot bot" crap already? kthx

Bots that spam craft for you are more harmful than claim bot use on competitive content?

Claim bots become a necessary evil when it becomes impossible to claim an NM without one. Craft bots don't ever become necessary.

[Splice]

Yeah, loading the claim bot and afking was skill~.

pretty sure this thread is not about claim bots. There are plenty of threads going over why bots should not limit content. good try though, please come back with a better response than, "omg bot bot bot blah blah blah"

[MeowyWowie]

Bots that spam craft for you are more harmful than claim bot use on competitive content?

Claim bots become a necessary evil when it becomes impossible to claim an NM without one. Craft bots don't ever become necessary.

Personally, yes, I think crafting bots are worse because the affect the entire server equally. More crafters at lv50 means less room for legit crafters to make a profit. The same goes for DoL. And it's likely that the legit crafters, miners, fishers and botanists got to 50 way after the bots did, which means even less of a chance for them to squeeze into the market and find a nice niche.

You're missing my point, though. No bots should be acceptable, period. I just find it funny that many don't care about the crafting/harvesting bots but completely rage at the notion of claim bots. If that's not the definition of irony, I don't know what is. People say one thing but mean another.

Hell, if they can make a "enter-spam-friendly" crafting system (very, very easy for anyone to write their own bot, or just afk turbo controller), then they sure as hell can make competitive endgame content. A bot is a bot is a bot, no matter which way you slice it. They should be dealt with by force, not evasive tactics because that's what got us in the situation we're in right now.

[Madruk]

Good design takes away the need to bot. Asian developers haven't understood this since the beginning. When you have repetitive tasks that need to be done over and over it's just begging to be botted. There's no skill involved in spamming standard, no skill hitting X 5 millions times, and no skill grinding out 5000 gathers for an achievement.

The economy is shit because there are no limits in place for any type of gear. No rare craftable drops aside from the NM's first introduced. About the only thing worth gil right now is materia because some are rarer than others. One crafter alone can ruin the entire market by themselves if they wanted to just by spamming whatever gear to saturate the market.

Materia gear has been the only savior of the market simply because you can't spam double or higher materia due to the rng factor.

[Slyvannas]

PvP always makes for good competition

[MeowyWowie]

Good design takes away the need to bot. Asian developers haven't understood this since the beginning.

Not really. People have been cheating since the dawn of civilization.

Name one game where you can't cheat. I bet you can't. There's no such thing as "good design" when it comes to botting, everything is prone to being tampered with.

Action, MMO, Single Player RPG, FPS, Strategy, Cards, Sports (game and real life), this list goes on and on. People cheat in every single one of them. The only exception I could think of is something like frisbee lol, and that's not even a real game.

The point is, it's impossible to make anything completely immune to cheating, especially when it comes to video games. So instead of making a bot-proof game (lol), make a fun one and get rid of the people who do bot.

[Madruk]

The idea of a bot proof game is as likely as banning everyone who does it. The point is repetitive tasks that are so prevalent in asian MMO's encourages it. I've yet to not see a Korean or similar asian MMO with systems designed that basically scream bot me.

[BlackomegaKingofwaffles]

Name one game where you can't cheat.

Calvinball.