The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[Fynlar]

If it looks like an accident (which does happen often enough), I'll bail you out. Otherwise, you pull it, you tank it. I'm not gonna grab it off you as a tank, and I'm not gonna heal you as a healer. Respect the tank's pace, or queue as tank yourself.


This is just general guidelines... like, for example, if the tank is causing delays to an unacceptable degree (like standing around idle for a minute after every fight before moving onward) and the content is low-level / easy enough that it's doable without his active participation, I don't have a problem with pressing onward without them if the rest of the party wants to.

Pulling slowly puts more strain on resources than wall to wall.

Highly disagree with that; pretty much the only time I've had resources pressed in 4-man dungeons (as any of the roles; CDs on tank, MP on healer, TP on DPS) is when megapulling.

Maybe it puts more strain on your *time*, but not your resources.

[JackHatchet]

Do you communicate to your party that you'll be frequently alt tabbing per pull at the start of the duty? At least they would be in the know of why their tank stops moving after every killed clusters and more importantly, give them the starting choice of wether they want to put up with that or try their luck again by re-queuing for DF.

I don't. It's like once every 3-5 runs that I alt tab to change my music, and 95% of the time--no one notices, because no one pulls. It'd literally take me more time to type out a message to explain why I'm stopping to change music than if I just alt-tab and click repeat. Sometimes I do it towards the end of a pull when mobs have like 10% hp left. Because then I know no one will run off and pull more, lol.

But seriously, it's never more than once per run. It's pretty low chance. But I think sometimes I'll be pulling pretty well. No one will pull. Then the moment I stop randomly. Someone thinks they need to keep pulling to keep pace. And then they wipe. I'd rather they not pull, but I don't mind if people do pull. Regardless. I usually never die in those situations, because FFXIV doesn't have misdirect like Warcraft--which would literally fix this issue.

[Xtrasweettea]

Nope don't care. Pull big or go play with NPCs in 3 weeks.

You can do that now already with Squadrons. I run with the squads while leveling DPS classes... the squad tank is better than most real tanks I run into...

[Mavrias]

You're exactly the kind of person that pushed me away from tanking entirely. Rather than understand that everyone is not at the same experience level, gear level, or confidence level, and letting a player gain experience, you just choose to kick them so they can't gain that experience as a player they need. I'm certainly glad we're on different data centers so I'll never have to see you in a roulette....

I went through from level 30 to level 60 in Heavensward as a Dark Knight then got to the roulettes at level 60 without ever having done a large pull, and ran into players not caring, not listening, or not understanding when I explained that I had poor gear compared to my DPS and the level of the mobs, and didn't have the confidence to pull more than I was, and would get yelled at and kicked. So rather than get the opportunity to learn, I just abandoned the role entirely. New tanks need the opportunity to gain more confidence, and eventually they will be up to par with other more experienced tanks, and not everyone has a group of friends who will be willing to just run random dungeons over and over so they feel okay with it, so they just use the roulette to get there.

Also I feel like the tank needs to be aware of party composition. For example, I had a run back in the day where I got Halatali normal in a leveling roulette with a monk and dragoon, and a healer that was annoyed I was doing small pulls. But monk and dragoon at that level have zero AOE skills, so even after reminding the healer of this, the healer still just pouted and refused to DPS the smaller packs.

with all due respect, you shot yourself in the foot by not doing multipack pulls while leveling. simple double pulls are good practice and just about every dungeon in this game lets you pull two packs at once. at HW and SB levelcap, dungeons are gated to prevent you from pulling more than two (sometimes three) at a time. you should be learning the basics of pulling (and multipack pulling) on your way to cap not when youre already there.

[ElroyDrundan]

I main a healer, so my views are coming from that perspective.


If a tank wants to pull one group at a time I'll sigh and then be okay with, it will be boring but not worth the hassle to fix it. It only adds on 5-10 mins to the dungeon time.

If a dps pulls I'll keep them alive the first time, after that I may not, depends on my mood. I have found that dps trying to force the tank to pull faster can end in a slower run, mobs will be running around, tank may not be able to handle it. Harder to group up all the mobs to AoE. Though if a dps pulls and leads the mobs directly to the tank... That I leave up to the tank.

Van Arn, who will hence forth be known as mr kicky. At first reading his posts I was more "is this guy for real?" but then I saw that he is fine with kick them, get kicked. I don't agree with him but I guess I kind of get it...If a tank is open to suggestions, trying and wanting to tank, I'll stick with them. If they come in way undergeared, and not able to hold threat at all, then they need to go..

Also the comment about tanks are least useful role in raids? Um you need to group with better tanks, I group most often with a warrior tank, our aoe dps will carry any group His damage is insane, (nerf Warriors and WHM ) He is the thing that makes it so easy, he pulls big, gets the mobs perfectly positioned, doesn't require much healing etc..

[Fynlar]

Encouraging megapulls in leveling dungeons (as opposed to 50/60/70 dungeons) is just going to cause a lot of wipes and a lot of wasted time in a lot of cases. Not to mention that a lot of the time I see some tanks doing this in lowbie dungeons it's when the DPS in the party don't even have their AoE attacks yet...

[Mavrias]

Encouraging megapulls in leveling dungeons (as opposed to 50/60/70 dungeons) is just going to cause a lot of wipes and a lot of wasted time in a lot of cases. Not to mention that a lot of the time I see some tanks doing this in lowbie dungeons it's when the DPS in the party don't even have their AoE attacks yet...

two packs at a time is a megapull now?

every dps has aoe at the very latest by level 45 (and thats just drg). blm, rdm, brd, and i believe mch have it before 20. but if youre in a hw and up dungeon? everyone can aoe so thats a flimsy excuse at best.

[Endeleon]

Honestly I hate the mentality in this game that tanks should pull huge packs, wall to wall, because then it gets situations like tanks thinking it's a good idea to do this in Sastasha where no one has AOE attacks so they are just getting beat on by 15 enemies for no discernible reason and then we wipe twice to a freaking aurelia because healers don't have any full health heals either.

[SenorPatty]

I don't. It's like once every 3-5 runs that I alt tab to change my music, and 95% of the time--no one notices, because no one pulls. It'd literally take me more time to type out a message to explain why I'm stopping to change music than if I just alt-tab and click repeat. Sometimes I do it towards the end of a pull when mobs have like 10% hp left. Because then I know no one will run off and pull more, lol.

But seriously, it's never more than once per run. It's pretty low chance. But I think sometimes I'll be pulling pretty well. No one will pull. Then the moment I stop randomly. Someone thinks they need to keep pulling to keep pace. And then they wipe. I'd rather they not pull, but I don't mind if people do pull. Regardless. I usually never die in those situations, because FFXIV doesn't have misdirect like Warcraft--which would literally fix this issue.

Thanks for clearing that up. Your post gave me the impression that it was being done at almost every pull. Having seen practically almost everything under the DF sun, so to speak, that whenever I encounter those sort tanks, I'd wish they would just let me know that's what they're gonna do. That way, my apathy could take the wheel if I deem to have time for it or just bail the duty and do something else.

[corydor]

I don't agree with any dps pulling a pack, had someone do it to me the other day because they wanted to use the LB

They pulled the pack when i had literally zero tp from two packs just pulled and the pack almost ate the healer, i luckily just got enough tp to overpower before the healer dies.

So if you're to selfish to actually think before you do it then your shouldn't touch extra packs.

Before you say well most dps aren't that stupid, you're creating a mentality where any dps will think they can do it regardless of the consequences, you want to make those decisions, queue as a tank.