Stop telling healers to go play dps

[KokonoeAiyoko]

Amazing, you haven't read anything, have you?

I have. But seems you aren't realizing what you said.

Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum.

This was in response to my post to someone else here.

Or maybe people aren't as good at games as you are and that downtime is them trying to focus on what's going on.

Of course gamers won't understand this concept being as that Sekiro meme exists.

My post literally was about people not being of a certain skill level and you respond telling me you're tired of people showing up and getting free pats on the backs for being there.

Little bit of an hypocrital stance. Perhaps if you had read my post and understand it, you will realize that I'm not speaking about skill, but actually putting effort in a team.

You just implied I don't care about being a team player or putting effort. So yeah, no I get what you're saying and that is why I said what I said. You really wanna go there we can. I do whatever it takes to benefit the party.

[NekoNova]

Yes, absolutely. I'm not coming for anyone.
But, we hold DPS to demonstrable standards and we should do the same with tanks and healers imo.
This game in particular is a funny case given the lack of numerical feedback (in the most part) so it is difficult to gauge success and improve on failure.
But the game is what it is - and regardless of how they dress it up, healing almost seems like an afterthought... it is not as engaging as it could be currently.

How do you gauge success?
For me personally, if I get a group and clear the content without wipes, I consider it a success, and couldn't care less about the numbers pulled by someone.
Doesn't matter if it took 5 minutes to clear that dungeon or one hour. Objective was achieved, so I'm happy.


I don't think healing is an afterthought in this game. I think people simply expect too much or play with the wrong ideology.
As mentioned before, we all play this game for different reasons, and those reasons will clash at some point.
The mature people will find ways to deal with it and move on. The rest? Most likely create forum/reddit discussions

[KokonoeAiyoko]

I gauge success as everyone trying, at their own skill level, and people having fun. I don't expect perfection or for them to be near my skill level. I will take a novice who can barely get one DPS spell in as healer who's trying over a skilled one who is not giving two shits and let's the party wipe any day.

I play every role so I know what it's like to pick up the slack of others in various ways. I don't really care, I enjoy helping people until I run into someone disrespectful. Be bad at the game all you want I'm completely chill with that, just don't be a jerk.

So in other words, success to me is playing with people who aren't jerks.

[Limonia]

Or maybe people aren't as good at games as you are and that downtime is them trying to focus on what's going on.

I'm not good. I don't do every extreme primal, only the ones where I think the mechanics look fun. And I usually only do the first and maybe second fight of a savage tier. And in those I'm not doing as much DPS as I could and I'm not healing as efficiently as I could, because I can't memorize every timeline perfectly and make mistakes at mechanics. But I'm trying my best every time.

If you are not new and still do not understand that the tank is at like 80% HP or higher most of the time if you just apply a Regen and use some heals here and there, then you should really try to focus on understanding the game you play first. You do play with other real people. Try to put in a little bit of effort at least.
NO ONE in their right mind would say that you have to DPS all the time as a healer and aren't allowed to use GCD heals. It is totally ok to heal. What's disrescpectful is not doing anything but pressing that one heal button IN THIS GAME.


Something I've noticed veeery often during the years I've been playing this game is also that heal-only healers have the most trouble healing people in chaotic situations. They are used to healing being such an easy task because it's usually enough to press those three heal buttons.
So if it gets chaotic and you know all your abilities and oGCDs aren't enough anymore or on CD you just use the GCD heals that are best for the situation to save the party instead of pressing Stone.
But A LOT of bad heal-only healers would just, for example, cast Medica II twice even though the regen timer is at 20s. And never use Largesse and so on, because just Medica II was enough when nothing bad happened. Because they are not used at all to using all tools available to them. They never tried healing efficiently before. But if you like to put out as much DPS as possible, you HAVE to heal efficiently. That makes you learn how to use your heals much better as well.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

I'm not good. I don't do every extreme primal, only the ones where I think the mechanics look fun. And I usually only do the first and maybe second fight of a savage tier. And in those I'm not doing as much DPS as I could and I'm not healing as efficiently as I could, because I can't memorize every timeline perfectly and make mistakes at mechanics. But I'm trying my best every time.

If you are not new and still do not understand that the tank is at like 80% HP or higher most of the time if you just apply a Regen and use some heals here and there, then you should really try to focus on understanding the game you play first. You do play with other real people. Try to put in a little bit of effort at least.
NO ONE in their right mind would say that you have to DPS all the time as a healer and aren't allowed to use GCD heals. It is totally ok to heal. What's disrescpectful is not doing anything but pressing that one heal button IN THIS GAME.


Something I've noticed veeery often during the years I've been playing this game is also that heal-only healers have the most trouble healing people in chaotic situations. They are used to healing being such an easy task because it's usually enough to press those three heal buttons.
So if it gets chaotic and you know all your abilities and oGCDs aren't enough anymore or on CD you just use the GCD heals that are best for the situation to save the party instead of pressing Stone.
But A LOT of bad heal-only healers would just, for example, cast Medica II twice even though the regen timer is at 20s. And never use Largesse and so on, because just Medica II was enough when nothing bad happened. Because they are not used at all to using all tools available to them. They never tried healing efficiently before. But if you like to put out as much DPS as possible, you HAVE to heal efficiently. That makes you learn how to use your heals much better as well.

Some people's first game is Final Fantasy XIV whereas a lot of us here play other games or other RPGs. Some people's first RPG is FFXIV, or the one they put the most time in.

I really do not see this as disrespectful. I've played Tank as main and DPS for years and have never felt offended if a healer doesn't DPS. I DPS like a boss when I play healer but...I really only see it as a bonus. I never felt disrespected by someone not doing that. I've only felt disrespected by people being elitists in runs for new players and making them quit the game due to their behavior. That's the kind of stuff I find disrespectful.

Sure it's good for people to strive to be better, but that comes at their pace on their time, not yours or mine. Unless we're doing core content I don't expect that from people. It would be foolish of me to do so.

[Elgeron]

Good work being so disingenous and just quoting part of my answer that benefits you.

Here, let me fix that for you

Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum. I won't ever understand why people do not want to make use of their full kits. Furthemore, this isn't even about player skill. It is understandable if a player cannot perform at a higher level. What is puzzling is those that can but refuse to do so. What fun is there in remaining idle?

First post,

I wouldn't force him or anyone doing more than they are capable of. Yet is ridculous that our skill have to be taken from us only because some cannot reach the same level. And the complain , again, is not about skill. Is about those that can play better, contribute more in a team game, but want any excuse not to do so...

Second post.

Also, lets talk more about this.

You just implied I don't care about being a team player or putting effort. So yeah, no I get what you're saying and that is why I said what I said.

So, ok, you want to do the best you can for your team, but then you said this.

I don't care either way, the changes they are doing here seem to be improvements to me getting rid of the bloat.

What do you mean with "bloat"? Who are full mechanichs just "bloat". The DPS rotation for SCH was bloat? Why? Then just do the same with the DPS, the Tanks, let then use just 1 skill for damage, 1 for dots or whatever. Was the card system "bloat"? Because it wasn't balance all the time?. Those things were fun. This is a game, where what dictates if is good or no is how much "fun" you are having. So far the game has done an excellent job at balancing casual players and skilled players, both in content and classes.
Classes like WHM are accesible, DPS was, at the end of the day, the factor that differentaited good from excellent healers. A player could play pick to do certain content and ignore other depending of difficulty, and classes like SCH let players excel by giving them a system that allows them to go beyond their roles while still being enganging. They have been being simplified since ARR. This won't make healers that are not skilled at DPSing more skilled, just punish those that are good already. And yet good players as yourself seem happy enough that is going to happen.

If you are so worried about healers that are not skilled, you should instead worry about the rumored increase of healing requirements in dungeons. Just to remind you of how much trouble healers had in AV, The Vault and other instances that had to be nerf.

One final note though

Seems that nowdays everyone just want a to get a pat in the back just for being there and doing the bare minimum.

Oh, I have realized what I said. Do you think I am a good player? Hells no. I'm painfully average. The hardest content I have managed to beat is Alphascape Savage 11, hardly anything notable. I died and screwed up many times. But here is the thing, I won't ever celebrate a game being made easier and simpler just to content some, while giving the middle finger to those that sticked with the game for so long. I will be very happy to be proved wrong, that healing has become enganging and difficult, yet somehow accesible for those player that are not skilled. Believe me, but as it stands, I have no much hope.

[Ilyrian]

I gauge success as everyone trying, at their own skill level, and people having fun. I don't expect perfection or for them to be near my skill level. I will take a novice who can barely get one DPS spell in as healer who's trying over a skilled one who is not giving two shits and let's the party wipe any day.

I play every role so I know what it's like to pick up the slack of others in various ways. I don't really care, I enjoy helping people until I run into someone disrespectful. Be bad at the game all you want I'm completely chill with that, just don't be a jerk.

So in other words, success to me is playing with people who aren't jerks.

But it doesn't have to be those extremes.

And it doesn't change the fact that the game doesn't currently require enough of healers to not DPS.

I would never tell anyone how to play in a 4 man dungeon because
1) it's pointless
2) It only causes friction
3) who is actually talking in dungeons anyway.

But

Given the choice I would always choose the healer that does damage over the healer that doesn't. If there was a choice - which there isn't, so there we are.

No, it doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things but watching someone stand there and not contribute whilst the tank and dps are hammering away at their buttons is not good play.
And I'm only talking about specifically baseline content. Not Savage or Ultimate. Just to be clear.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

Good work being so disingenous and just quoting part of my answer that benefits you.

Here, let me fix that for you



First post,



Second post.

Also, lets talk more about this.

So, ok, you want to do the best you can for your team, but then you said this.



What do you mean with "bloat"? Who are full mechanichs just "bloat". The DPS rotation for SCH was bloat? Why? Then just do the same with the DPS, the Tanks, let then use just 1 skill for damage, 1 for dots or whatever. Was the card system "bloat"? Because it wasn't balance all the time?. Those things were fun. This is a game, where what dictates if is good or no is how much "fun" you are having. So far the game has done an excellent job at balancing casual players and skilled players, both in content and classes.
Classes like WHM are accesible, DPS was, at the end of the day, the factor that differentaited good from excellent healers. A player could play pick to do certain content and ignore other depending of difficulty, and classes like SCH let players excel by giving them a system that allows them to go beyond their roles while still being enganging. They have been being simplified since ARR. This won't make healers that are not skilled at DPSing more skilled, just punish those that are good already. And yet good players as yourself seem happy enough that is going to happen.

If you are so worried about healers that are not skilled, you should instead worry about the rumored increase of healing requirements in dungeons. Just to remind you of how much trouble healers had in AV, The Vault and other instances that had to be nerf.

It was your opening line holy crap dude lol. Stop reworking this story I really don't have time for this ignorance.

And lmfao you are upset I agree with SE's decision and consider this bloat and like a more streamlined DPS kit?

Jfc dude just straight up projection I have no time for this.

[Elgeron]

"S-stop saying things I don't like, you big lying meany, y-you are just upset."

Also not a single explanation, wonderful.

[Limonia]

Some people's first game is Final Fantasy XIV whereas a lot of us here play other games or other RPGs. Some people's first RPG is FFXIV, or the one they put the most time in.

I really do not see this as disrespectful. I've played Tank as main and DPS for years and have never felt offended if a healer doesn't DPS. I DPS like a boss when I play healer but...I really only see it as a bonus. I never felt disrespected by someone not doing that.

Maybe it's because I'm really bad at socializing (and expressing myself with words, so sorry if I come off as weird all the time), but I find it extremely unfair if I have to run the content for someone who only presses like one button, while I and the others in the group are doing things all the time. Even if the DPS doesn't use his perfect rotation, if he's putting in some effort it's totally fine with me. But a not new healer that only uses heals even though the tank is almost at full HP all the time anyway isn't. Why is is alright for the healer to just stand there? Because it seems to be alright in some other games. Because in some other games he HAS to press the heal buttons constantly. So he only assumes instead of thinking and observing (or outright refuses to adapt), and doesn't adapt his accustomed "playstyle" to this game.

I never played an MMO before this one. The first class I played was Conjurer. I saw I had DPS spells and enemies only removed so much from HP bars. Of course I was very careful at first, but I used DPS spells from the beginning. I think that if FFXIV is your very first MMO or even RPG your even less prone to just healing, because your not used to the heal-only role of some other games.

I have to add that if someone is totally new and doesn't DPS as healer I'm really fine with it, because he must first realize that healing isn't needed all the time. Maybe he doesn't have good gear in his first dungeon and the tank is inexperienced as well, so he HAS to use his heals. But he is able to realize after a while that he would just stand around doing nothing if he only heals in a "normal" party.

And to the first post you made that I quoted, with the "play other games", this is almost all the time only meant for healers from other games that refuse to adapt, not to the new and inexperienced players that are still learning. But the ones that deliberately just idle instead of doing something, full knowing that this game is designed differently.