Dear Healers who don't DPS

[Lordfurious]

Enmity Management absolutely is a group responsibility. Diversion, Lucid, Purification, Merciful Eyes, Elusive Jump, Refresh, Tactician, and most importantly Shadewalker and Smokescreen exist for a reason.



Clemency, Second Wind, Bloodbath (which is super strong on melee), Merciful Eyes, Vercure, and yes potions exist. Even though most DPS forget about these abilities. Almost every single job has some form of self healing.



It's not just about damage taken. Troubador (all forms), Third Eye, Mana Ward, Feint, Apoc, mixed with Reprisal, Cover, TBN, and Shake it Off all provide mitigation Almost every single job has some form of mitigation, self or group.



In normal which you consider nothing, you realize that killing mobs faster is a form of mitigation right? The faster mobs die, the less overall damage they can do. So yeah, Healers, go all out while you still can. Use that Holy on every trash pull. It's an on demand Hallowed Ground without the CD.

Because Hydaelyn forbid people be responsible for group play. . .

I completely disagree. I do agree the Aggro management is everyone's responsibility but not because the tanks drop stance. Some tanks can't hold aggro against really good DPS even while in stance. You mentioned that every player should have the responsibility to heal. In my opinion that's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read Because if a DPS is healing that is a humongous DPS drop for the entire group. And a Healer is not going to out DPS a DPS class. Your own arguments tells us why healer should stick to healing and wide DPS should stick to DPS and tanks should stay in stance and keep aggro.

[Deceptus]

I completely disagree.

You can disagree, but straight up, you're wrong. Group content requires a group effort. If you don't like it, don't group.

You mentioned that every player should have the responsibility to heal.

I never said that. I merely mentioned the myriad of ways to do it and encouraged people to do so. Context is pretty important. IF there's a raidwide AOE coming and you have something that can help mitigate some of that damage, it's irresponsible for you to not use it to better your group.

In my opinion that's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read Because if a DPS is healing that is a humongous DPS drop for the entire group.

Pressing Second Wind, Bloodbath costs you essentially 0 dps loss, very negligible if there is a loss. You can weave them into a rotation pretty easily.

And a Healer is not going to out DPS a DPS class.

This is quite honestly an ignorant statement. You'd be surprised how many DPS I've out DPS'd as a healer in the 5 years I've been playing this. Especially now. Healer AOE (At least WHM and SCH) is ridiculous.

[Lordfurious]

You can disagree, but straight up, you're wrong. Group content requires a group effort. If you don't like it, don't group.



I never said that. I merely mentioned the myriad of ways to do it and encouraged people to do so. Context is pretty important. IF there's a raidwide AOE coming and you have something that can help mitigate some of that damage, it's irresponsible for you to not use it to better your group.



Pressing Second Wind, Bloodbath costs you essentially 0 dps loss, very negligible if there is a loss. You can weave them into a rotation pretty easily.



This is quite honestly an ignorant statement. You'd be surprised how many DPS I've out DPS'd as a healer in the 5 years I've been playing this. Especially now. Healer AOE (At least WHM and SCH) is ridiculous.

You're too much now you're saying that healers can out DPS the DPS class and DPS should heal. So then why do we have healers? Your arguments seem to be very circular and at the end of the day completely irrelevant as the changes are happening whether we like them or not. So this will become a mute point in the new expansion. But your Arguments for why healers should DPS included abilities that were not instant cast for DPS that would in fact take away from their rotation. You had also mentioned clemency and a few others so now the tank instead of using his cooldowns and keeping his hate combos active is now going to heal? You can go back and change what you said if you want but I read it a couple of times and what I took away from it is that you want other people to heal and you want healers to DPS. I'm sorry but I will not change my opinion that I find that completely silly. And if you're going to quote me please quote the whole thing as you have followed me and other forums doing the same exact thing trying to make it look different than what the comments really are taking them completely out of context by taking bits and pieces that you want and putting them together the way you see fit.

[althenawhm]

Healers absolutely can top DPS in dungeon pulls, this isnt something you can argue against.

[Kabooa]

Healers absolutely can top DPS in dungeon pulls, this isnt something you can argue against.

I mean. not anymore.

[althenawhm]

I mean. not anymore.

They certainly didnt nerf WHMs AoE at least.

[Kabooa]

They certainly didnt nerf WHMs AoE at least.

But every DPS job they -did- outdamage they gave better AoE to.

[Deceptus]

But every DPS job they -did- outdamage they gave better AoE to.

While that will almost certainly true in Shadowbringers, LordFurious is talking about now. And as of now, on at least SCH and WHM, I routinely out DPS the DPS on trash pulls. This is while keeping everyone alive. It's not that hard.

You're too much now you're saying that healers can out DPS the DPS class and DPS should heal. So then why do we have healers? Your arguments seem to be very circular and at the end of the day completely irrelevant as the changes are happening whether we like them or not. So this will become a mute point in the new expansion. You can go back and change what you said if you want but I read it a couple of times and what I took away from it is that you want other people to heal and you want healers to DPS. I'm sorry but I will not change my opinion that I find that completely silly.

I never demanded DPS STOP doing damage and start healing. I simply ask them to use their entire kit like I would expect tanks to use their entire kit, like I would expect other healers to use their entire kit available.

As for this:

But your Arguments for why healers should DPS included abilities that were not instant cast for DPS that would in fact take away from their rotation. You had also mentioned clemency and a few others so now the tank instead of using his cooldowns and keeping his hate combos active is now going to heal?

See my sig below to answer that question. If you're going to die and the healer can't help you(dead, focused on the tank), help yourself.

And if you're going to quote me please quote the whole thing as you have followed me and other forums doing the same exact thing trying to make it look different than what the comments really are taking them completely out of context by taking bits and pieces that you want and putting them together the way you see fit.

First off: No, I'm not "Following You". I'm relatively active in the healer forum because that's the Role I like best and play the most.

Second: This is why I directly quote instead of using " X " . If anyone wants context, they can click the link and see exactly what you wrote. I don't need to quote a whole wall of text if I'm just going to respond to one or two points. Picking apart your argument piece by piece because you tend to ramble and not format your paragraphs very well, they need to be broken up a bit.

[IttyBitty]

tripe

Emnity management means using skills like smokescreen, lucid dreaming, tactician, refresh, shirk and provoke so that tanks have more opportunity to increase group DPS. You know, those things pretty much every class has access to.
HP management means not standing in aoes taking damage that you can avoid, or if you do, using your own oGCD healing options, or your mitigation before the hit lands. I never mentioned or even implied using potions, but go ahead and fill your boots if that's the weakass argument you're going to pull out.
Mitigation is a subset of HP management as it serves the same role (ie preventing you from reaching 0HP). If you can reduce the damage hitting the party, you make things easier for everybody else, thus freeing up valuable GCDs.
DPS is a group responsibility because DPS is the ultimate form of mitigation. There isn't enough damage going out to require constant healing. So you use your downtime to DPS. If you refuse to DPS then you are refusing to make use of your downtime, meaning you are standing around with your thumb up your ass for the majority of an encounter while everybody else is putting effort in. This makes you a lazy, self-entitled piece of garbage who doesn't value the time of everybody else in the party.

All of these statements would remain true even in the case that they ramped up incoming damage because healing has an upper limit that has to be met and once it has, any more is useless. The same would be true of tanking, even if they removed 95% of a tank's offensive skills bar one single target & AoE, and then get their own version of flash to spam for eternity. Because emnity too has an upper limit where it becomes worthless. There is no upper limit where DPS becomes worthless. If the enemy still has HP, more DPS is always welcome.

So no, it doesn't show that I'd like to throw roles out of the window. It shows I'm *not an idiot* and actually use all of the tools at my disposal as effectively as I can to help the group, regardless of my role.

[miraidensetsu]

Have fun with the leveling process spamming 2111111111 on the overworld. Sorry ASTs, I know this has been your life and you wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Maybe the problem is not having even enough damage to even clear those quests. Even with only those 2 spells to spam. That could force the healer to level a DPS alongside.