Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

It's actually the reverse. Early on in the thread there was a lot of backlash towards anyone suggesting that Viera should be classically handsome, tall and well-built. Quite a lot of people were pushing for them to be child-like around that point which has thankfully been stamped out by Yoshi-P. The worst of the offending posts have been deleted, though if you've been following the thread from the beginning I suppose you've seen them already.

The backlash against overly feminine/androgynous aesthetics did not simply arise out of nowhere. It's a counter, in large part. There have also been people stating that Hrothgar should not have been added which further muddies the waters.

I agree with this entirely and to not only tell others that their opinion is wrong but that they shouldn't share it isn't very helpful either. The whole "Hrothgar shouldn't have been made" argument is stupid because they add something to the game that we don't have. They add a new type of customization. It's refreshing. Hopefully they add the females as well and keep them looking beastly. I've seen a lot of female players wishing for them to be such. However, going back to overly feminine male viera, I have seem many wanting them, on here and in game, to be used for their fetish. That's not necessarily a majority by any means. It's just the majority I've been exposed to.

[Mugear_bahamut]

I disagree, especially since none of the points I raised in the post you quoted were acknowledged or addressed. Each to their own, though!

It boils down to which people are active and in favor of your thoughts, really. I don't mind not getting acknowledged since only a minority actually visits and pay attention to the forums. It was more than 2 years before I actually became an active poster. Even this thread isn't validated just because it has a lot of comments, because the same 10 or so people are the only ones keeping track.

[Lauront]

That's just how it's going to be though, it's the same thing with people who were upset that viera weren't short and dainty, they still fill a niche upon being added. Regardless of aesthetics they'll be as liked as they will be we already know from racial statistics what is and what is not popular, so it doesn't really matter.

They've proven with hrothgar and blue mage they may not go with what is popular but what they already have in mind, again they'll have the appearance that they'll have at the end of the day. Saying "I don't want them added if they look tall and manly" or "big and chunky" or "slim and feminine" is pretty counterproductive for discussion, instead just post art or talk about what certain forms you like(this isn't directed at you in particular).

At the end of the day SE'll do what SE wants to do with whatever feedback they get, both sides need to stop preemptively getting bent out of shape for "wrong think" as long as it isn't offensively sexualizing children.

I wouldn't say it's counterproductive. It's just expressing an opinion in the end. As you say, SE will add what they want to add, and if they intend to use the diffusion of visions for the race as an excuse not to add them, they will do that whether it is framed positively, i.e. through posting pics, or not, i.e. through posts stating they don't like a certain design. I do think in this case, though, they will at least take account of where the aesthetic preferences of their playerbase lie, because they're not in the business of habitually wasting money.

[MrKimper]

It's actually the reverse. Early on in the thread there was a lot of backlash towards anyone suggesting that Viera should be classically handsome, tall and well-built. Quite a lot of people were pushing for them to be child-like around that point which has thankfully been stamped out by Yoshi-P. The worst of the offending posts have been deleted, though if you've been following the thread from the beginning I suppose you've seen them already.

The backlash against overly feminine/androgynous aesthetics did not simply arise out of nowhere. It's a counter, in large part. There have also been people stating that Hrothgar should not have been added which further muddies the waters.

That's not true, while I agree that a lot of the people, even on the japanese forums, were very vocal early on they were specifically citing Alphinaud(who is 16) as a desired example which of course as I've stated myself is not okay and is wrong to desire the body type of a child. A lot of the criticism for "buff" posters that consisted of mostly you was the mocking and sarcastic edge to replies to fanart that they did not like.

It was incredibly disrespectful to comment on fanart that you disliked, and knew that you disliked simply because it did not fit your aesthetic and then say "if they look like this I don't want them added" was the issue that people had, it was disrespectful and mean-spirited. Similar to the recent posts in this thread, no one for reference that I recall had an issue with a more buff viera, some people may have wanted vieras to be shorter than the female(which I disagree with but did not decry as pedophillia as short men do exist) but no one was commenting on Viera fanart posted and saying "gross" in the numbers that has been happening.

Either way as I've stated, I already have my preference, but please try and be respectful to others if they're attempting to be respectful to you. There's no need to accuse someone you do not know of being into a fetish regardless of your own experience outside of this thread. It would be like me saying people who wanted hrothgar wanted it for fetish purposes or other things.

[Theodric]

There was not a huge amount of people pushing for a child like Viera.

Yoshi-P would not have made a statement on the subject if it was truly a minority. Quite a lot of people were pushing for it on the likes of Twitter and Tumblr too, not just on the official forums.

There were some that posted pictures of teenagers or wanted to have Alphinauds built (as in slender and the size of an female Au Ra) but that does not mean that they wanted to play as children.

Alphinaud is sixteen years old which isn't the legal definition of an adult in a number of countries. Furthermore, some people were describing him and his physique as 'sexy' and expressing a desire to dress him and characters similar to him in revealing attire.

I also remember certain posters calling this creepy and other things even though again it was about a body type and not the age. (In that case Lalas are the creepiest since their children look exactly the same as the adults)

Understandably so. Some of the suggestions posed within this thread and others have been on the creepy side. I also find Lalafell to be on the creepy side of things and would never play one myself.

Of course there were some small amount of posters throughout the thread that disagreed harshly against anything they did not like but that came from both sides because I do also remember that some of those that wanted their classical handsome males did not want Vieras if they dont look like that.

Many, I suspect, recognise that it would not be an efficient use of resources to design them in a way that did not account for conventional beauty standards. If the women are designed to be conventionally attractive then it makes sense for the men to be conventionally attractive too.

Most stayed civil and just gave their view and that is fine. But the amount of posters that are going against one certain poster or against those that want their "yaoi boys" is a bit too much the last pages. There is just no need for that.

The issue with a lot of yaoi is that it often depicts men in relationships with other men an unflattering manner, often reducing one of them into being very submissive and feminine compared to the other, for instance. Exceptions exist, of course, but I don't blame anyone for being wary of a genre that often goes out of its way to reinforce negative stereotypes.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

Edit: And the part with Hrothgar might have been said by like one poster, in a thread with over 580 pages. The amount that are simply going against certain posters is much bigger than that imo.

I can guarantee you it was more than one poster, especially between here, reddit, and Twitter. It was actually a pretty large backlash when it first happened. People have since warmed up to them but at first it was nothing but hate.

[MrKimper]

I can guarantee you it was more than one poster, especially between here, reddit, and Twitter. It was actually a pretty large backlash when it first happened. People have since warmed up to them but at first it was nothing but hate.

I will say, my only response to hrothgar, was simply when people would use STATISTICAL DATA to say that they would have been STATISTICALLY more popular than male viera or were inherently more requested than Viera, which again is not a factual statement based on both racial statistics and the requested race poll hosted by square enix.

That being said I will speak for myself and say I would have rathered we got full hrothgar if it was the developers wishes and full viera added whenever they fixed their issue with gear. That or fixing the character customization options as we have them right now.

As for Lauront I'm on my phone so can't get the post but regardless I simply think it's counterproductive to be upset at someone for having a different aesthetic, I see little reason to get worked up when you can just express your own opinion without mocking someone else's as stupid. It smacks of the kind of rhetoric people use when they say Male viera shouldn't be added.

[Lauront]

It comes down to wording, I suppose, but there's a difference between saying "I don't like this" and "You're stupid for liking this". The former is fairly harmless, IMO.

[Alleo]

Yoshi-P would not have made a statement on the subject if it was truly a minority. Quite a lot of people were pushing for it on the likes of Twitter and Tumblr too, not just on the official forums.

[...]

The thing with the children did not just come up with the Viera because there had always been topics about people wanting to play as them (and its kinda a bit their fault too for including a child Viera in one of their concept arts x)). Interestingly the JP seems to like a more younger body type much more than us so maybe its worse there? But at least in this thread barely anyone wanted to play a child.

Alphinauds body type never said anything about the age of the race either, just that they wanted someone the size of the female Au Ra with a slender body. I mean even the Au Ra females often look like they could be teenagers and their body itself can look pretty young too if you take away some of the breast. So why is that fine but someone that wants to play with a male in that size is creepy? Heck quite a bit of the male japanese can look like teenagers since they are often slender and small.

Also the creepy side only comes because you think them as creepy. I saw pictures of teenage characters more as someone that wanted to play someone younger, maybe someone at their own age? We can see bad things everywhere but that does not make it so. And again some of those clearly stated that they wanted the body type (small and slender) and not necessarily their age. But again those were the minority and those with true children even more.

Again with this conventionally attractive..there is no single clear view on what is that. This is completely different for each culture and age. Heck the JP players alone would probably be quite different with that seeing how they love their J-Pop. And at least in western movies and advertisment you will find much more men that are either slender, or muscled like the Elezen or Au Ra and less those that are looking like Conan.

Yaoi can be quite different, depending on what you want. Of course this sub/dom thing is there but isnt that also there in real life? In the end I am fine if people want certain things, as long as they dont state that it has to happen that way or that its the only way.

I can guarantee you it was more than one poster, especially between here, reddit, and Twitter. It was actually a pretty large backlash when it first happened. People have since warmed up to them but at first it was nothing but hate.

I am talking about this thread not some other sources. And here at least there was like one person that stated something like that. And in the end its just their opinion. Just like some can say that they wished that male Vieras came before Hrothgars. Thats also fine. Its just their opinion. One can disagree with that in a civil way with arguments but attacking the person behind it or things like that are just not great.

In the end I can understand the backlash, since they showed the female Vieras and people were hyped to see the males because they never thought that SE would genderlock something. Then I remember that quite some people attacked those that started to doubt the existance of male Vieras, saying that they should just wait and not be so dramatic. Then we had the leaks from the french version and suddenly for the first time we had another name. But people thought that maybe we would get two new complete races. And then on the last fanfest, after preorders have been done, after giving no clear answer even when directly asked, they told us about the genderlock..isnt it understandable that people were pissed? That in their eyes they lost their chance to play as the male version of something that was long asked? Would you not be disappointed if one half of the race you wanted was revealed and suddenly out of nowhere without any hints in the game they introduced something else for the gender you want? Its only human to be a bit angry against the option that in your view should not have costs them their option.

[LittleChickenNugget]

It comes down to wording, I suppose, but there's a difference between saying "I don't like this" and "You're stupid for liking this". The former is fairly harmless, IMO.

I'm just gonna say, your signature is literally the exact kind of Viera I want. S'all I gotta say about what they look like.