we are now entering the center of "complain" phase

[Wolf_Heartnet]

Seems like OP is complaining about the complainers. Not going to get into any arguments here, but when presented with new information especially considering that it is related to new skills and balance changes and whatnot, it is common sense for people to outline concerns and give feedback. Threads like these are often just obstructive and pointless. I think it's more important for people to provide feedback so that any balance issues are resolved at launch. Pretty much the same happened with the white mage lily issues before stormblood launch and all the feedback they got has caused the devs to move in on that and secure some balance changes.

I think it's more depressing that people in these forums are extremely quick to say NO and very quick to shutdown any feedback to improve the game because they insist that "nothing is wrong"

[Deceptus]

everywhere i went (this forum, reddit, youtube comment, gaming forum) all i see now is just complain about every class, change, new future, everything.

If you're seeing it everywhere you go, perhaps there is some merit to it. If you're hearing fire alarms perhaps there's a fire near. That fire might not affect you specifically, but something is getting burned.

the negativity is just overwhelming at this point, and we are not even touching the game yet.

You don't need to stick you hands in poop to see a pile of it and say, "This is poop, it stinks"

[Imuka]

All this complaining is not a sudden change of mind. For a lot of people all those changes are like the straw that broke the camels back.
Stormblood felt pretty "bleh" and shallow. It is basicly a copy of Heavensward, but weaker and more predictable with little to no innovation.

And now people see the skills they get for Shadowbringers and certain jobs just look like a more shallow version of their Stormblood counterpart. Who were basicly often shallow versions of the Heavensward classes.

They see how the combat system and other mechanics gets more and more streamlined.
People moved away from WoW, because of how Blizzard streamlined the WoW combat into the graveyard. And now Yoshi copies this step of the WoW history, that made so many players leave the game.

People lose trust, that this game will ever evolve into more than a shallow copy of Heavensward.

[AnnaRosa]

Seems like OP is complaining about the complainers. Not going to get into any arguments here, but when presented with new information especially considering that it is related to new skills and balance changes and whatnot, it is common sense for people to outline concerns and give feedback. Threads like these are often just obstructive and pointless. I think it's more important for people to provide feedback so that any balance issues are resolved at launch. Pretty much the same happened with the white mage lily issues before stormblood launch and all the feedback they got has caused the devs to move in on that and secure some balance changes.

I think it's more depressing that people in these forums are extremely quick to say NO and very quick to shutdown any feedback to improve the game because they insist that "nothing is wrong"

On this I agree the feedback should be done by the players that main healers jobs, but exposing the positive and negative points for each class with a metric and written in concise form so the community managers can report the SE/developers quickly and efficiently everyone's feedback.
If in the end of all posts they decide to change something in time for other patches at least perhaps they can try to put it on their workflow priority's.

Not in form of critic but in form of constructive feedback

[Crystal_Raven]

please do not spread out false information just to play the "victim" card. Their forum rules are very similar to ours. Man even though ff14 has the best community, i guess internet is the internet and toxic behavior will always be found on the forms.

Except it's not false information. It's pretty well known that if you criticize the game for what it does really poorly, you will be banned. I'm friends with quite a few people that are banned from the official forums because they criticized the game for essentially being a theme park MMO.

They're all part of different communities, and what a big surprise, they aren't banned in any of them due to being pretty polite people. They're part of the FF14 reddit as well and they have no issues.

Yet, they're banned from the official forums because they criticized the game quite a bit, no offensive words, nothing that can be seen as toxic, just criticism about things the game does badly.

Here's something from their ToS.

"Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.
Posting seeking to damage or disparage Square Enix, the forum, FINAL FANTASY XIV, or others.
Posting content with the intention of criticizing either Square Enix staff or specific individuals."

It's actually included in their ToS that you cannot criticize them. Everything they do is right.

Please do not spread out false information.

[Kohdo]

everywhere i went (this forum, reddit, youtube comment, gaming forum) all i see now is just complain about every class, change, new future, everything.

the negativity is just overwhelming at this point

This is the state of this forum 100% of the time. There's three types of threads here; people showing off nice screenshots, people posting new class ideas, and people whining incessantly about literally anything. It might be more visible at the moment due to all the info about Shadowbringers (and therefore more things for people to whine about) but the overwhelming negativity has been here for a long time.

[Rufalus]

everywhere i went (this forum, reddit, youtube comment, gaming forum) all i see now is just complain about every class, change, new future, everything.

the negativity is just overwhelming at this point, and we are not even touching the game yet.

i can understand with the genuine complain on certain class makeover (*cough* AST cards *cough*) but the others?

There's a big negativity bias. Many people have an instant negative reaction to any kind of change, even good changes. I think it's like when an operating system or website gets updated with navigation improvements, but people were so used to the flaws of the old design, the kneejerk reaction is that the new thing is terrible because it's unfamiliar. Pretty much all of the job changes this expansion are the result of player feedback and data on how we've been using them. In a way ShBr is exactly what the players wanted, but like an average of the most popular requests because you can't satisfy every individual's personal ideals. Some examples of getting things we requested: Mnk Greased Lightning IV, Mch rework, Tanks no dps penalty on stances, Smn free cost and instant cast of summoning / switching egi.

There are things that look worse, in isolation, but it has to be viewed in the context of the total toolkit of a job and its balance against other jobs. I really liked the way Ast cards used to be so that specific change is less interesting to me too, but the positives are that there's consistency now in always drawing dps boosting cards, we get a great new cooldown in Neutral Sect, and Whm isn't outshone as much as it used be. The improved balance between the 3 healers means I'll probably play all 3 regularly, whereas before I had a strong Ast preference to the exclusion of the other two.

[Vercinotrix]

People complaining about people complaining about complaining. We must go deeper.

On a serious note, both sides of the coin are needed. I keep reading posts about how people like OP stifle feedback and criticism, but not all feedback is valuable and not all criticism is warranted. Ironically you need all three types of complainers to have a more healthy community.

Let them all have at it, it'll sort itself out eventually.

[Jybril]

Pretty much this. Healers are understandably confused and upset while tanks and DPS are generally fine with it all.

(Seriously though, WTF were they thinking when "fixing" the healers?)

Seems like they want healers to quit to be honest, while we are already a needle in a haystack to Queue with.
I'm not happy with it but we can't do anything about it until we play it and then fully express ourselves
fully so they can listen to us. Right now it's all on deaf ears until we knock it and try it.
That's what happened with Bowmage if you remember lol.

Just sucks because if it really as bad as we think, it'll take the entire expansion for the fix.
[I.E. BRD + AST]

[Freerider]

I mean you have to see the healer perspective (I'm a healer and this might be just me but I think most agree with me) we thought we were getting a new class and we didn't. We got kind of passed over in the live letter which sent people into danger mode, then we got a lot of changes that made classes kind of different. We lost a lot of mana control as well I currently have 18 mana but I now will have 10k and less ways to get it back. We are confused.