BLM seems to have been left in the dust (and raise MUST BE removed on SMN/RDM)

[Nalien]

All Healers and Casters should have a Raise spell, or variation of, IMO.

Red Mage is the Raise spammer, thanks to Dualcast.
Summoner should be the "Not a complete DPS loss" Raiser, since it's Raise should be Phoenix based with something like a Fire II effect around the person you're reviving.
Black Mage shouldn't have Raise? Nah, I think a Necromancer type revive actually fits them nicely; They get a party member back up, but that party member has the Walking Dead status effect and needs to be dealt with accordingly.
Blue Mage absolutely should be getting Reraise out of Lv60 and Amdapor Keep (Hard), but Blue Mage also doesn't count, so ignore this.

[Katie_Kitty]

All Healers and Casters should have a Raise spell, or variation of, IMO.

Red Mage is the Raise spammer, thanks to Dualcast.
Summoner should be the "Not a complete DPS loss" Raiser, since it's Raise should be Phoenix based with something like a Fire II effect around the person you're reviving.
Black Mage shouldn't have Raise? Nah, I think a Necromancer type revive actually fits them nicely; They get a party member back up, but that party member has the Walking Dead status effect and needs to be dealt with accordingly.
Blue Mage absolutely should be getting Reraise out of Lv60 and Amdapor Keep (Hard), but Blue Mage also doesn't count, so ignore this.

Yeah no. Class balance matters and taking the only thing that makes RDM stand out and giving it to BLM too makes caster balance even worse than it already is. The game should be going the opposite direction by making RDM the only DPS with the ability to raise. You want raises from DPS then you sacrifice some damage by bring rdm instead of summoner. Balance.

[Aomine1992]

What does BLM bring to the party? DPS lol seriously BLM is literally been on top majority of storm blood, my SMN barely compares after the boost in dps for BLM. You don't need Rez and trust me it's sometimes a pain to have becuase you are always expected to help Rez when you wanna pump out deeps. Honestly it's just a niche

[Nalien]

Yeah no. Class balance matters and taking the only thing that makes RDM stand out and giving it to BLM too makes caster balance even worse than it already is. The game should be going the opposite direction by making RDM the only DPS with the ability to raise. You want raises from DPS then you sacrifice some damage by bring rdm instead of summoner. Balance.

I'd really rather Red Mages identity not be dictated by people messing up, personally... "For prog then tossed aside for something stronger once we know the mechanics" ain't ideal either. Raise really shouldn't be a part of class balance, either all Casters should have it, or none should. It's not an interesting niche to have, nor is it even a useful one in ideal circumstances.

That said, even if all Casters had Raise, Red Mage is still the superior pick for actually using it, purely by virtue of the Dualcast mechanic.

[Maero]

I for one would never want a raise on blm like ever. Just my opinion, but i could tell you i would never use it.

[TraeSnow]

We need to see where damage values will be after the expansion comes out. As long as blm deals substantially higher dps than smn, including their group dps buff contributions, blm will be in a good spot. I fear that won't be the case though. Utility like group damage buffs and raises need to come at a cost to personal damage, but smn didn't get that memo until the end of this expansion.

Hm...why should a BLM deal more damage than a DPS' personal parse combined with their raid DPS contributions? Ideally they should be balanced. BLM Personal DPS = SMN Personal DPS + Raid Contribution DPS. If a BLM did more DPS than a utility DPS + their contributions, why take any form of utility? In a perfect situation they should be balanced, but they won't be and that is understandable. I've been noticing a lot of BLM lately demanding their personal DPS be the highest in the game, even higher than DPS with their contributions factored in, and it's just silly.
Yes. BLM is the highest personal DPS.
No. All other jobs aren't useless.

[Zerathor]

Hm...why should a BLM deal more damage than a DPS' personal parse combined with their raid DPS contributions? Ideally they should be balanced. BLM Personal DPS = SMN Personal DPS + Raid Contribution DPS. If a BLM did more DPS than a utility DPS + their contributions, why take any form of utility? In a perfect situation they should be balanced, but they won't be and that is understandable. I've been noticing a lot of BLM lately demanding their personal DPS be the highest in the game, even higher than DPS with their contributions factored in, and it's just silly.
Yes. BLM is the highest personal DPS.
No. All other jobs aren't useless.

If smn didn't have raise, you would be correct. Raise is a utility that needs to come at a price. Even to have access to.

If total dps contribution between blm and smn were equal and you need one caster in your static, do you take caster with raise, or no raise? It's no contest, and why smn dominated blm the majority of SB up until alphascape

[TraeSnow]

If smn didn't have raise, you would be correct. Raise is a utility that needs to come at a price. Even to have access to.

If total contribution between blm and smn were equal and you need one caster in your static, do you take caster with raise, or no raise when the total dps is equal either way? It's no contest, and why smn dominated blm the majority of SB up until alphascape

That is actually a fair point. I overlooked raise being part of their utility. Even if we don't use it, we still have access to it, so it should count.

[Zerathor]

That is actually a fair point. I overlooked raise being part of their utility. Even if we don't use it, we still have access to it, so it should count.

Truthfully that's why I think smn should lose it and rdm verraise be more restricted, while putting smn total dps equal to blm and rdm very slightly behind. So you can make a group for prog or general clears playing the job you want to play for its playstyle, and not get shoehorned into playing a raise caster because a party wants an easy way out. That might make raid content actually last longer than a couple days before getting cleared as well.

And if that's not the case (it never will be) I at least want pure damage jobs to have enough of a raw lead on damage to make them more appealing for losing utilities that powerful.

[Zzzlol94]

*sigh* I meant 4.0, as the patch 4.0. I didn't say 4.x. Apparently you all forgot. In 4.0, BLM was painful to play and did really, really poor DPS. This didn't change before Deltascape, but BLM was still outclassed by SMN in every way even with the bucketload of buffs we got. The only thing SE got right accidentally with that first QoL buff, was that Blizzard IV was actually made optional as the DPS loss of avoiding it isn't big enough compared to how safe the rotation is and how small chance there is to messing it up when you've learned it. And to me, avoiding Blizzard IV made BLM much more enjoyable to play for me while still doing more DPS than the majority of BLMs.

Most of you are also ignoring the fact that Raise is the sole reason to why there will always be a imbalance between BLM and SMN/RDM, no matter the difference in DPS or utility. BLM could have Apocatastasis (RIP you stole it from us), Mana Shift, even a Manaward you could cast on others, and still people would pick SMN/RDM because of their Raise and mostly ignore BLM. I have a few friends who main BLM, and multiple times they got asked, and sometimes even forced into playing SMN/RDM for Savage. Only because of raise. It's ridiculous. And apparently this is OK for this community and SE.

BLM sure does the most DPS right now, but that took 1 YEAR to happen. 4.4 was when SE finally got their ass out and buffed F4/B4 to 300 potency, where it should've been from the start. Mind you, 40 more potency than 4.0 with a reduced cast time to 2.8s instead of 3s. That's how bad 4.0 BLM was. Right now, BLM is where it should be, a clear number 1. Having gone through and calculated potency per second for BLM, there's a 11% increase in DPS. SMN on the other hand, gets a 18-20% increase, or even more, if those Ruin 3/4 numbers stay. Which will make SMN do more damage than BLM, have more utility and MUCH more movement. I am NOT taking this as fact for what ShB will be like, but I honestly doubt SE will do anything about it before launch, and just wait until 5.05. If BLM has bad DPS at launch, people will think that's the case for almost the entire expansion (which was actually the case until as late as 4.5).

This game never had any party compositions that were unviable, and me and my static thinks the same. We started with BLM/RDM/NIN/BRD on Deltascape because that's what people wanted to play, simple as that. We even got our first clear of O4S with BLM/RDM/NIN/SAM, using that as our progression group... If you wanted MNK/SAM/MCH/BLM for Savage at 4.05, that would be perfectly fine, as damage is still mostly dependant on player skill, which people seem to have forgotten. But this increasingly toxic and elitist raiding community has just continuously forced the meta into everything, even going as far as saying there are unviable jobs. Currently, Melee DPS is fixed in this regard. DRG is no longer almost mandatory and NIN lost one of the biggest reasons to pick it. Now SE just has to balance those. For ranged DPS, I hope SE knows what they're doing when removing all damage buff utility from MCH, nerfing BRDs utility heavily and giving all the stuff to DNC. For casters though, as long as Raise only exists on SMN/RDM, it is completely and utterly impossible to balance this to the point where people have no issues taking any of those jobs in and don't even have to think about wanting an extra Raise.

Am I trolling? No, I just want to see SE actually balancing casters now that they've made the needed effort to balance Melee. Raising should either be completely removed, or EVERY CASTER should be given a Raise on a 5-7 minute cooldown and only that as a Raise. Is this an unreasonable request? No. Does removing Raise remove the identity of RDM/SMN? No, they're still very unique to all other DPS. When Raise is removed from RDM/SMN, Healers need to have an easier time raising. I hate having to do all the thinking that SE can't be bothered with, and then being promptly ignored.

I will definitely be looking forward to being right on what the state of BLM vs. SMN/RDM will be when the expansion and next raid tier launches.