WHM still has no raid DPS buffs in 5.0

[AngelicSnake]

Y’all want things like this and then get mad when all of the roles are homogenized. Ain’t y’all dizzy ?

[Seraphor]

Y’all want things like this...

Not at all. I wanted dual card readings for AST, so basically TWELVE different effects, instead of ... two.
And I wanted Shell and Protect back on WHM.

[HyoMinPark]

Pretty much this. WHM is clearly getting a lot more focus on its own DPS.
AST on the other hand has suffered a great nerf. Cards now just give a flat 3% damage, and more of it's kit is just a copy of WHM or SCH, with even its new Horoscope system mimicing WHM's NEW Plenary Indulgence.

Cards aren't all flat 3%.

Balance/Arrow/Spear are 6% for Melee, 3% for others.
Bole/Spire/Ewer are 6% for Ranged, 3% for others.
Lord is 8% for Melee, 4% for others.
Lady is 8% for Ranged, 4% for others.

All cards are 15s durations, with Draw still on a 30 second CD. So I feel like there was some definite nerfing there. But, personally, this removes the fun of card play in my opinion. We're no longer trying to fish for AOEs, but just mindlessly throwing cards on DPS now based on what they are or we can Minor Arcana one for a slightly larger buff.

[Seraphor]

Cards aren't all flat 3%.

Balance/Arrow/Spear are 6% for Melee, 3% for others.
Bole/Spire/Ewer are 6% for Ranged, 3% for others.
Lord is 8% for Melee, 4% for others.
Lady is 8% for Ranged, 4% for others.

All cards are 15s durations, with Draw still on a 30 second CD. So I feel like there was some definite nerfing there. But, personally, this removes the fun of card play in my opinion. We're no longer trying to fish for AOEs, but just mindlessly throwing cards on DPS now based on what they are or we can Minor Arcana one for a slightly larger buff.

6% if you have the correct DPS class in your party. Get stuck with two melee or two ranged and your utility is cut by 25% off the bat.
And Lord and Lady are only only used if you don't get the seals you need for Divination, even after redraws.
As that extra 1/2% of Lord/Lady for one person is eclipsed by the extra 3% AoE on Divination.

Imagine you get stuck with two ranged DPS.
You draw an Arrow, 3% buff and a seal. Then draw a Spear, another 3% buff and a seal.
You then draw a Spire. Awesome, 6%... except it's the same seal you've already got, so you redraw, oh great, now it's a Spear, 3% buff for the same seal still, so you Minor Arcana it into Lord of Crowns for a 4% buff instead of 3%, and your Divination is stuck at 3% instead of 6%.
With all of these buffs lasting only 15s...

[Maeka]

When you get right down it it, Chain Stratagem has never been that big of a DPS boost. Nonetheless, it defines the meta.

Which is why it is OK to keep it, if it doesn't affect the DPS enough that you think another healer "isn't good enough".

If it's only a 3-6% boost, then unless you're doing progression raiding, it really doesn't matter. Play what you like, but yet they're keeping the skills there so you still have the buttons to push, so the class feels different to play. They could be like WoW and just remove the buttons altogether and everybody gets to cast Physick/Benefic/Cure, Benefic II/Cure II/Lustrate and call it a day. But they're not doing that, and that's good.

[Kalise]

This is precisely WHY throwing around raid buffs like candy is a bad idea. They're nerfing raid buffs in 5.0, having/not having cards is going to be a far less importance in 5.0 because of how it is today.

You don't see this as a good thing? That they are nerfing AST cards, to bring AST closer to SCH and WHM?

Nerfing rDPS boosts to bring jobs more in line with each other makes sense.

Yet, still, this inequality exists where 2/3 jobs within a role have rDPS boosts.

Can you find the problem with that?

Bearing in mind, that in order to fix the Tank inequality, where 2/3 jobs had certain skills and 1/3 jobs had certain skills... They gave all those skills to 4/4 jobs.

Like, giving all 3 Healer jobs rDPS boosts won't be breaking things, since you're still only going to want to bring 2 healers max. Only, it would be far simpler to balance them. Since you make their rDPS boosts generic and equal (So that certain DPS don't benefit more from one type of boost than another, such as how pre-5.0 Bard scaled exponentially off crits) and you're done. Then give them similar pDPS and similar HPS and you've got yourself a balanced Healer role.

Raid buffs are mostly a problem when they're in the hands of the DPS jobs. Since then you're getting up to 4 jobs with rDPS boosts which stack multiplicatively (Not accounting any rDPS boosts from the 2 healers) and trying to balance pDPS vs tDPS within the roles.

Literally, there'd be nothing wrong with Healers and Dancer being the only jobs that had rDPS boosts. That wouldn't be "Throwing raid buffs like candy" and would only required actually adding a rDPS boost to one extra job. While toning down or removing the rDPS boosts found on the DPS jobs (Sans Dancer) to allow them to be more balanced around their pDPS only.

You know, instead of trying to do stupid things like balance tDPS vs pDPS in the HEALER role, which means trying to balance around HEALERS forgoing HEALING and instead focusing on DAMAGE.

[Sebazy]

Yeah, you can tell they've gone the route of flatting the skill ceilings for both SCH and AST with these changes. AST's card play strikes me as boiling down to trying to fill divinity as quickly as possible so you can minor arcana a few cards whilst you wait on the CD. Pretty pale to what it was before even if I was never a fan of Sleeve Draw.

[HyoMinPark]

6% if you have the correct DPS class in your party. Get stuck with two melee or two ranged and your utility is cut by 25% off the bat.
And Lord and Lady are only only used if you don't get the seals you need for Divination, even after redraws.
As that extra 1/2% of Lord/Lady for one person is eclipsed by the extra 3% AoE on Divination.

I listed the card potencies - it's 6% or 3% depending on the card and on whom you play it.

In a high-end setting, you usually don't run full ranged or full melee, so having that comp won't be an issue. In dungeons, sure. But dungeons are fairly easy anyways, and optimizing in there is meaningless.

Divination seems incredibly underwhelming, in my opinion. 3~6% buff for 15 seconds every 3 minutes.

Imagine you get stuck with two ranged DPS.
You draw an Arrow, 3% buff and a seal. Then draw a Spear, another 3% buff and a seal.
You then draw a Spire. Awesome, 6%... except it's the same seal you've already got, so you redraw, oh great, now it's a Spear, 3% buff for the same seal still, so you Minor Arcana it into Lord of Crowns for a 4% buff instead of 3%, and your Divination is stuck at 3% instead of 6%.
With all of these buffs lasting only 15s...

Which further solidifies my disapproval of new card play. I wasn't a fan of it when I saw the trailer/leaks, and I'm not still a huge fan of it.

[fantasticm]

The fact that Plenary Indulgence has been nerfed back into its original useless state is absolutely mind boggling.

[Risvertasashi]

If it's only a 3-6% boost, then unless you're doing progression raiding, it really doesn't matter.

This has always been a flawed argument. DPS buffs also help low end groups recover from deaths, or help make up for that one guy that sucks at his rotation. It's not a top 0.5% only thing like so many would have you believe.

All that said, I'd be happy to not care about DPS buffs. I really wish I could. But raid leaders look at what each healer brings to the group. Well all of them bring the healing. Beyond that, it's DPS buffs that 2 jobs have but one doesn't. And I have to fight to convince those raid leaders I'm worth bringing along, and then deal with the raid's complaints about how much higher their rankings would be if they only had the other healer.