THANK YOU for making Healers actual Healers again!

[Pepsi_Plunge]

I was not aware that we were on the topic of EX fights and Savage. Things which the crowd that prefers to just heal tend to avoid.

Even outside of those, your party will be still pissed and bosses way more dangerous in the endgame dungeons if the healer don't DPS. The best way to keep your party save is usually to kill things as quickly as possible.

[Seoulstar]

Even outside of those, your party will be still pissed and bosses way more dangerous in the endgame dungeons if the healer don't DPS. The best way to keep your party save is usually to kill things as quickly as possible.

If we're going to be 100% honest here. The only parties that would be pissed about that would be one of those parties. Which honestly is not the vast majority of the FFXIV community itself. While I agree it's best to kill things as quickly as possible. I'm not going to go as if my day is ruined because the healer wants to strictly heal.

Because if healers were blanket changed to only heal, it would be universal in both softcore level content and hardcore level content.

The fact remains that it's not a requirement for them to do so in softcore though. While I agree a healer should be dpsing in hardcore content. Something like a dungeon isn't a major deal if they decide they don't want to toss out damage spells. As to why that is such a difficult concept to grasp for some people bewilders me.

Anyways. This is going in a circle just like every other time I let myself get caught up in this pointless debate. I'm honestly not even going to bother anymore lol

[Starflake]

If we're going to be 100% honest here. The only parties that would be pissed about that would be one of those parties. Which honestly is not the vast majority of the FFXIV community itself. While I agree it's best to kill things as quickly as possible. I'm not going to go as if my day is ruined because the healer wants to strictly heal.


The fact remains that it's not a requirement for them to do so in softcore though. While I agree a healer should be dpsing in hardcore content. Something like a dungeon isn't a major deal if they decide they don't want to toss out damage spells. As to why that is such a difficult concept to grasp for some people bewilders me.

Anyways. This is going in a circle just like every other time I let myself get caught up in this pointless debate. I'm honestly not even going to bother any more lol

It IS a major deal because it's so incredibly easy to DPS as a healer in dungeons, you would just be wasting 3 other people their time. Never once did I think to myself "oh, this is a dungeon, we don't really need healer DPS". No my mentality is that I contribute the most I can, regardless of the content I'm in, because I respect people their time more than my own drive to be lazy.

[Seoulstar]

It IS a major deal because it's so incredibly easy to DPS as a healer in dungeons, you would just be wasting 3 other people their time. Never once did I think to myself "oh, this is a dungeon, we don't really need healer DPS". No my mentality is that I contribute the most I can, regardless of the content I'm in, because I respect people their time more than my own drive to be lazy.

My mentality is this. "I'm joining this dungeon, it could go pretty quick or it might be a little slow. But oh well, whatever happens, will happen". You give the impression that you're considerate about the three people in your party and you respect them. Yet that consideration and respect appear to be thrown straight out the window when it comes to a healer that isn't dpsing. There is also a bunch of reasons as to why a healer isn't dpsing. Let me put me for example when I didn't dps. It wasn't because I was being lazy. Or wanted to "waste the time of the rest of the party". It was because I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't confident. Basically, I was scared that if I tried, I would completely screw up and wipe the party. That was until I got into a run when someone asked why and I explained to them. They gave me tips, and asked if I could give it a shot. Ease my way into it. Which I did, that was years ago and now I dps whenever possible.

It's quite interesting when people show patiance and being actually considerate and respectful towards the person that's doing something they don't necessarily agree with. They didn't blow it up like I was wasting time, they didn't go to the realms of insulting me saying I'm being "lazy". Will everyone react to that the same way I did? Heavens no, but it's nice to actually give that a bit of consideration. Which is another reason why I feel I'm always butting heads with the pro dps crowd on this forum. Most of you don't show respect towards the healers you are complaining about. You just lash out at them while insulting. You berate them, treat them like you're far superior. If you're trying to convince them to dps, then you're a terrible job at it. I've seen people who literally went to the extent of purposely wiping a run because the healer isn't dpsing. If you want to talk about wasting time, you need to talk to those people. Yes, dpsing in this game is easy. But easy to you is not the same easy as everyone else that plays this game. I respect people too. But the difference between you and me is this. When I say I respect people. I actually mean it and yes, that includes the people I have constantly butted heads against when getting involved in this debate. I respect you guys opinion, but I think it's quite flawed.

[Seoulstar]

The thread is thanking Yoshi P for a blanket change for all healer damage (mistaken translation or no) across all content types. Whatever debate you're having, if it's not using that as a basis, is a bit off-topic.

I'm going to make the assumption that you completely ignored the first page of this thread and for whatever reason just looked at my comment and thought I was the only one being slightly off topic here as the debate was starting and I simply made the comment of I don't care what happens as long as it ends this pointless debate. Which honestly is true. I've grown tired of this debate, it does nothing but goes into a complete circle. It's really just a colossal waste of time because no one is getting anywhere with it.

Edit: Realized I did a double post..strange lol

[SaberMaxwell]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you completely ignored the first page of this thread and for whatever reason just looked at my comment and thought I was the only one being slightly off topic here as the debate was starting and I simply made the comment of I don't care what happens as long as it ends this pointless debate.

I stepped in when you said "I was not aware we were on the topic of EX and Savage."

When we're talking about blanket changes to all healers across all content, we are indeed talking EX and Savage...and Ultimate, and Eureka. We're talking all healers across all content.

[Seoulstar]

I stepped in when you said "I was not aware we were on the topic of EX and Savage."

When we're talking about blanket changes to all healers across all content, we are indeed talking EX and Savage...and Ultimate, and Eureka. We're talking all healers across all content.

I see..I will admit I didn't understand that completely at first. At least I understand it now. Either way..this is draining.

[Starflake]

Quote

I said I respect people their time. And therefore, people who blatantly waste other people their time aren't respected. I'd still not waste everyone else their time though. You're misrepresenting what I am saying. Not DPSing because you're not comfortable is a completely different thing. But then again, DPSing in any dungeon, especially expert roulette is so mind boggling easy, one has to wonder how on earth one can be uncomfortable with it. For me, it's simple, if in any dungeon or savage you aren't doing damage as a healer, you are doing a poor job. You can be uncomfortable, and as a result play poorly, that does not change anything about the fact that it's poor gameplay.

I am not here to convince anyone. All I am saying is that I respect people's time and since it's so incredibly easy to DPS as a healer in any content, I do it, always.

[Seoulstar]

I said I respect people their time. And therefore, people who blatantly waste other people their time aren't respected. I'd still not waste everyone else their time though. You're misrepresenting what I am saying. Not DPSing because you're not comfortable is a completely different thing. But then again, DPSing in any dungeon, especially expert roulette is so mind boggling easy, one has to wonder how on earth one can be uncomfortable with it. For me, it's simple, if in any dungeon or savage you aren't doing damage as a healer, you are doing a poor job. You can be uncomfortable, and as a result play poorly, that does not change anything about the fact that it's poor gameplay.

I am not here to convince anyone. All I am saying is that I respect people's time and since it's so incredibly easy to DPS as a healer in any content, I do it, always.

I understand that. I do too. I apologize for the other comment. I'm just trying to say that everyone is different and not everyone is going to do everything that is optimal. What's easy to you and easy to me may not be easy to whoever else. Take the vault for example, I found that EXTREMELY fun and quite easy to do buuut there were threads with numerous people complaining it was too hard. I asked myself how on earth it was too hard but as I stated, I'm not them and it could be hard for whatever reason. The same applies to not dpsing as a healer.

In terms of doing a poor job. In my personal opinion, that's if they can't do their job properly. In this case, it would be the healer not doing what their primary role is. Which is keeping the party alive. Honestly, I think this all just varies by person. So honestly both of us are interestingly right and wrong lol

Edit: Holy crap..1k post.

Well, as you said yourself, it may be time to just walk away completely. Healer DPS is up there with parsers on the "People are so entrenched on both sides that neither will budge any time the topic is brought up" level of stubbornness.

Personally, I say do what you can but always aim to improve, but I'm not going to pay attention to how much other people are doing. I don't care enough unless we're in an EX or a Savage.

Yeap..I think it is. I will admit, it is quite interesting seeing the perspectives. Some of them are a bit extreme though. I do agree one should aim to improve, but I also realize that not everyone thinks that way. I just..live and let live? Whatever the phrase is. Anyways, I would be lying if I said I didn't have at least a bit of fun from this. Anyways~ it's been a pleasure and I do genuinely mean that.

[HyoMinPark]

My mentality is this. "I'm joining this dungeon, it could go pretty quick or it might be a little slow. But oh well, whatever happens, will happen".

Dungeon is almost guaranteed to go even slower when the healer stands around not contributing to damage. Healer AOE is not something to scoff at - and considering DPS seem to be allergic to their own AOE more and more as the days pass, it's not uncommon to see healers doing more in terms of contribution than a DPS job against a trash pack.

You give the impression that you're considerate about the three people in your party and you respect them. Yet that consideration and respect appear to be thrown straight out the window when it comes to a healer that isn't dpsing.

I consider it fairly disrespectful when I'm expected to press and utilize all of the buttons and actions in my kit, but healers think they can get away with pressing only one or two of theirs.

There is also a bunch of reasons as to why a healer isn't dpsing. Let me put me for example when I didn't dps. It wasn't because I was being lazy. Or wanted to "waste the time of the rest of the party". It was because I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't confident. Basically, I was scared that if I tried, I would completely screw up and wipe the party. That was until I got into a run when someone asked why and I explained to them. They gave me tips, and asked if I could give it a shot. Ease my way into it. Which I did, that was years ago and now I dps whenever possible.

There is a difference between a baby healer or a learning healer not juggling healing and DPS or being afraid to do so, and a geared healer being lazy by just not DPSing (or insisting that they don't have to). I've seen healers in full i400 gear--including Savage gear--that AFK for dungeons. Personally, idk how anyone can do that - I'd be bored to tears.

It's not uncommon either to find healers in endgame content from 24-mans to normal 8-mans to even EX and (PUG) Savage that insist on not dealing damage. Being new and learning a fight is one thing - knowing the fight and still choosing to not actively contribute is another. A lot of these tend to go to extremes with healing as well: they either heal WAY too much (completely negating the work of their co-healer), or they struggle to heal at all and their co-healer ends up doing the bulk of both.

It's quite interesting when people show patiance and being actually considerate and respectful towards the person that's doing something they don't necessarily agree with. They didn't blow it up like I was wasting time, they didn't go to the realms of insulting me saying I'm being "lazy". Will everyone react to that the same way I did? Heavens no, but it's nice to actually give that a bit of consideration. Which is another reason why I feel I'm always butting heads with the pro dps crowd on this forum. Most of you don't show respect towards the healers you are complaining about. You just lash out at them while insulting. You berate them, treat them like you're far superior. If you're trying to convince them to dps, then you're a terrible job at it. I've seen people who literally went to the extent of purposely wiping a run because the healer isn't dpsing. If you want to talk about wasting time, you need to talk to those people. Yes, dpsing in this game is easy. But easy to you is not the same easy as everyone else that plays this game. I respect people too. But the difference between you and me is this. When I say I respect people. I actually mean it and yes, that includes the people I have constantly butted heads against when getting involved in this debate. I respect you guys opinion, but I think it's quite flawed.

As I said before, I find it fairly disrespectful when you have a role who thinks they can get away with doing 50% while everyone else is expected to put in 100%.