THANK YOU for making Healers actual Healers again!

[Seoulstar]

I stepped in when you said "I was not aware we were on the topic of EX and Savage."

When we're talking about blanket changes to all healers across all content, we are indeed talking EX and Savage...and Ultimate, and Eureka. We're talking all healers across all content.

I see..I will admit I didn't understand that completely at first. At least I understand it now. Either way..this is draining.

[SaberMaxwell]

I see..I will admit I didn't understand that completely at first. At least I understand it now. Either way..this is draining.

Well, as you said yourself, it may be time to just walk away completely. Healer DPS is up there with parsers on the "People are so entrenched on both sides that neither will budge any time the topic is brought up" level of stubbornness.

Personally, I say do what you can but always aim to improve, but I'm not going to pay attention to how much other people are doing. I don't care enough unless we're in an EX or a Savage.

[Seoulstar]

I said I respect people their time. And therefore, people who blatantly waste other people their time aren't respected. I'd still not waste everyone else their time though. You're misrepresenting what I am saying. Not DPSing because you're not comfortable is a completely different thing. But then again, DPSing in any dungeon, especially expert roulette is so mind boggling easy, one has to wonder how on earth one can be uncomfortable with it. For me, it's simple, if in any dungeon or savage you aren't doing damage as a healer, you are doing a poor job. You can be uncomfortable, and as a result play poorly, that does not change anything about the fact that it's poor gameplay.

I am not here to convince anyone. All I am saying is that I respect people's time and since it's so incredibly easy to DPS as a healer in any content, I do it, always.

I understand that. I do too. I apologize for the other comment. I'm just trying to say that everyone is different and not everyone is going to do everything that is optimal. What's easy to you and easy to me may not be easy to whoever else. Take the vault for example, I found that EXTREMELY fun and quite easy to do buuut there were threads with numerous people complaining it was too hard. I asked myself how on earth it was too hard but as I stated, I'm not them and it could be hard for whatever reason. The same applies to not dpsing as a healer.

In terms of doing a poor job. In my personal opinion, that's if they can't do their job properly. In this case, it would be the healer not doing what their primary role is. Which is keeping the party alive. Honestly, I think this all just varies by person. So honestly both of us are interestingly right and wrong lol

Edit: Holy crap..1k post.

Well, as you said yourself, it may be time to just walk away completely. Healer DPS is up there with parsers on the "People are so entrenched on both sides that neither will budge any time the topic is brought up" level of stubbornness.

Personally, I say do what you can but always aim to improve, but I'm not going to pay attention to how much other people are doing. I don't care enough unless we're in an EX or a Savage.

Yeap..I think it is. I will admit, it is quite interesting seeing the perspectives. Some of them are a bit extreme though. I do agree one should aim to improve, but I also realize that not everyone thinks that way. I just..live and let live? Whatever the phrase is. Anyways, I would be lying if I said I didn't have at least a bit of fun from this. Anyways~ it's been a pleasure and I do genuinely mean that.

[lordcruxis]

All the healers still have offensive spells, the intent seems to be to move away from the healing oGCD meta, which for me is a welcome change.

It's very likely you will have still have downtime, it's very likely you will be able to weave damage spells.

Healers do still have to be able to complete msq solo remember. The only thing that remains to be seen is has damage been increased or will it remain roughly the same.

[LeonTrifang]

Just use the macros <t> <tt> You never have to leave the tank untargeted, and you can spam DPS without a care.

[swiss_Momo]

pfffft, as if all the afk Netflix healers don't already tend to fall flat the moment they have to actually do some intense healing

[Dzian]

But what they said doesn't really make sense if AST and SCH still have their unique toys, WHM was the 'pure healer' because it didn't have anything but big heal energy.

It doesn't make sense because yoshis vision of jobs does not fit his vision of the battle system..

His vision of jobs is about diversity and identity. But his vision of battles is about homogenization and balance. They don't fit together. If the battle is designed around a level of damage that all healers can heal. For sake of a number 20k a minute. Then having a healer than can heal 100k and do nothing else is useless. Which is why people take healers that can heal maybe 50k a minute and throw out a ton of dps...

[Lozza]

All the healers still have offensive spells, the intent seems to be to move away from the healing oGCD meta, which for me is a welcome change.

Given that they said outright they were giving WHM an new ogcd heal because they though WHM didn't have enough that doesn't sound like it's moving away from the current meta unless enemies do a tonne more dmg than they currently do. That is what makes the ogcd meta work, the lack of dmg healers are forced to heal means that a regen and the occasional tetra or bene is enough to cover the loss of health in many instances. If healers can cover all the healing without wasting a precious gcd they will do exactly that.

[Coltvoyance]

The post that someone made earlier on the definition of "Pure Healer" equaling "Regen/Direct Heals" is pretty conclusive on what the term means to Japan. So it's likely that our Healing v DPS ratio is not actually changing much.

When it comes to the Healing DPS debate...

1) I wish Healers spent more time healing than DPSing. Not all their time. But more of it.

2) Healers should contribute to DPS when they're not healing/when the party's not in danger.

3) If your WHM/AST is not DPSing in content, they are likely not comfortable with it yet. Masterfully switching between players and enemies, while healing efficiently, managing your MP, dodging attacks, dealing damage and casting buffs on top of being a general baby-sitter for stubborn DPS and arrogant Tanks can be INTIMIDATING for most players to do all at once. Especially with the pressure of messing up equaling a dead party. Try to understand their feelings.

3a) If your SCH is not DPSing, they are lazy, and you can be mad about it. lol.

4) Unless DPS/Tanks want their queue times to be longer, be a bit happier that there are so many Healers who at least fulfill the basic requirement of keeping the party alive. If you drive out all but the most masterful Healing+DPS combo players, you'd have a real shortage on your hands. Especially with no new healing class in ShB.

[HyoMinPark]

My mentality is this. "I'm joining this dungeon, it could go pretty quick or it might be a little slow. But oh well, whatever happens, will happen".

Dungeon is almost guaranteed to go even slower when the healer stands around not contributing to damage. Healer AOE is not something to scoff at - and considering DPS seem to be allergic to their own AOE more and more as the days pass, it's not uncommon to see healers doing more in terms of contribution than a DPS job against a trash pack.

You give the impression that you're considerate about the three people in your party and you respect them. Yet that consideration and respect appear to be thrown straight out the window when it comes to a healer that isn't dpsing.

I consider it fairly disrespectful when I'm expected to press and utilize all of the buttons and actions in my kit, but healers think they can get away with pressing only one or two of theirs.

There is also a bunch of reasons as to why a healer isn't dpsing. Let me put me for example when I didn't dps. It wasn't because I was being lazy. Or wanted to "waste the time of the rest of the party". It was because I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't confident. Basically, I was scared that if I tried, I would completely screw up and wipe the party. That was until I got into a run when someone asked why and I explained to them. They gave me tips, and asked if I could give it a shot. Ease my way into it. Which I did, that was years ago and now I dps whenever possible.

There is a difference between a baby healer or a learning healer not juggling healing and DPS or being afraid to do so, and a geared healer being lazy by just not DPSing (or insisting that they don't have to). I've seen healers in full i400 gear--including Savage gear--that AFK for dungeons. Personally, idk how anyone can do that - I'd be bored to tears.

It's not uncommon either to find healers in endgame content from 24-mans to normal 8-mans to even EX and (PUG) Savage that insist on not dealing damage. Being new and learning a fight is one thing - knowing the fight and still choosing to not actively contribute is another. A lot of these tend to go to extremes with healing as well: they either heal WAY too much (completely negating the work of their co-healer), or they struggle to heal at all and their co-healer ends up doing the bulk of both.

It's quite interesting when people show patiance and being actually considerate and respectful towards the person that's doing something they don't necessarily agree with. They didn't blow it up like I was wasting time, they didn't go to the realms of insulting me saying I'm being "lazy". Will everyone react to that the same way I did? Heavens no, but it's nice to actually give that a bit of consideration. Which is another reason why I feel I'm always butting heads with the pro dps crowd on this forum. Most of you don't show respect towards the healers you are complaining about. You just lash out at them while insulting. You berate them, treat them like you're far superior. If you're trying to convince them to dps, then you're a terrible job at it. I've seen people who literally went to the extent of purposely wiping a run because the healer isn't dpsing. If you want to talk about wasting time, you need to talk to those people. Yes, dpsing in this game is easy. But easy to you is not the same easy as everyone else that plays this game. I respect people too. But the difference between you and me is this. When I say I respect people. I actually mean it and yes, that includes the people I have constantly butted heads against when getting involved in this debate. I respect you guys opinion, but I think it's quite flawed.

As I said before, I find it fairly disrespectful when you have a role who thinks they can get away with doing 50% while everyone else is expected to put in 100%.