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  1. #1
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
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    Feb 2019
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    A café at the edge of the universe
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    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    The way I see it is, as a ranged or caster, ultimately you have complete control over what range you're attacking from for most of the fight. The devs' ideal is you stand some distance back and use Corps-a-corps and Displacement to quickly alternate ranges, but at the end of the day you could stand just outside melee range while casting and you have enough GCD freedom and instant casts (stutter-stepping and slide-casting aside) to just run in; hell, in some fights healer prefer such grouping. Lately I've had several instances where I stood fairly close for a good portion of a fight (when I felt comfortable that the tank was in control), Displaced out of melee to avoid attacks and Corps-a-corps'd back to my original spot.

    Why do I want to use Displacement? To get out of vulnerable melee range and put distance between myself and my target. Biggest obstacles? Enemies chasing after me, rendering the distance moot in under a second. Solution? Hamstring 'em and turn 'em off chasing me. Not terribly hard to cover in instanced combat since the tank will usually cover me, but near any non-melee CC will help when I don't have one.

    Why do I want to use Corps-a-corps? To get in, quickly unleash a melee combo, and get back out. Biggest obstacles? Enemies trying to hit me while I'm close, especially with attacks that interrupt the combo. Solution? Don't let them hit me -- CC lockdown.
    Heavy and Bind won't help you at that range; Bind is broken by damage so it's bad to pair with the combo (and your auto-attack) anyway. Slow would have to be pretty significant to matter for the 5-ish seconds you're in melee. Spells are the least of your worries while in melee, and I have yet to see a Silence longer than 1 second anyway.
    So you got Stun, Blind, and Pacification, and I dunno which ones are least-resisted, but I can tell outright that Stun is the most applicable to an ideal lockdown maneuver.
    (1)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 05-21-2019 at 05:52 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Kalise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,784
    Character
    Kalise Relanah
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    Why do I want to use Displacement? To get out of vulnerable melee range and put distance between myself and my target. Biggest obstacles? Enemies chasing after me, rendering the distance moot in under a second. Solution? Hamstring 'em and turn 'em off chasing me. Not terribly hard to cover in instanced combat since the tank will usually cover me.

    Why do I want to use Corps-a-corps? To get in, quickly unleash a melee combo, and get back out. Biggest obstacles? Enemies trying to hit me while I'm close, especially with attacks that interrupt the combo. Solution? Don't let them hit me -- CC lockdown.
    So you got Stun, Blind, and Pacification, and I dunno which ones are least-resisted, but I can tell outright that Stun is the most applicable to an ideal lockdown maneuver.
    Though, you seem to be looking at things from a "Solo Red Mage vs the World" scenario.

    When in reality, the majority of Duty Fantasy XIV is in Duties. Which means you have a Tank (Hopefully) holding aggro. Thus making CC effects on CaC/Displacement redundant (Much like every other CC effect that DPS jobs have. Outside niche situations where things like Leg Sweep/Head Graze/Arm Graze can interrupt an ability - Which is rare in of itself, but also rare to actually have a DPS put these things onto their action bar)

    Like, the biggest obstacle with Displacement, isn't "Enemies chasing after you" it's Duty arenas being so small that using it will yeet you off the edge to your death.

    Similarly, using CaC, the biggest obstacle isn't "Enemies trying to hit you and need locking down" it's the fact that you're a squishy mage and thus don't have the natural tankiness to deal with mDPS related mechanics (That and well... Most attacks in melee range would simply be the telegraphed ones that you simple walk out of... Annoying when you just wasted your mobility skill but not the biggest deal)

    Any "CC" effects would only be notable in solo Overworld/Eureka content or would be minor ways to aid a Tank - Of which, Stun has the highest chance to actually make things worse for a Tank due to Diminishing Returns.

    So... Speaking of which... CaC would make the most sense if it gave you a small shield. Not as strong as BLM's Manaward (Especially since Manafication gives CDR on CaC) but a little something so if you do get cleaved, you don't hug the floor. Which would also still be useful for soloing.

    Displacement is the skill that has more flexibility, because it has that issue of arenas being too small for its use so it can more easily get away with having niche status effects on it. (Alternatively... Scrap the skill entirely and just make it so Corps-a-Corps has a ~5 second window to reuse the skill and let you backflip to where you originally cast it from, thus bypassing the static distance it moves you being harmful in small arenas and giving RDM an additional button to replace with a new skill instead)

    As far as those 3 status effects go...

    Blind tends to be resisted the least. Pacification gets resisted by many bosses as well as get put on DR by Paladins using Shield Swipe. While Stuns get resisted the most and are more easily put onto DR (Especially with Monks because Riddle of Wind is literally 2/3 stuns to put the 1 minute of immunity into effect...)
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    Though, you seem to be looking at things from a "Solo Red Mage vs the World" scenario.

    When in reality, the majority of Duty Fantasy XIV is in Duties.
    Sure. Because within the context, we're discussing replacing the damage value with status-based CC, which is useless or inconsequential in 95% of Duty-based content because they stopped designing duties with enemies who were vulnerable to most of it, so we may as well focus on the scenarios where it's actually of use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    Like, the biggest obstacle with Displacement, isn't "Enemies chasing after you" it's Duty arenas being so small that using it will yeet you off the edge to your death.
    And I've already addressed a fix for that separately -- reducing the "yeet" distance and increasing the range from which you can jump away.
    But that's all for the sake of making the skill adjustable, not addressing its actual value (ie the reason you press it in the first place). The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    So... Speaking of which... CaC would make the most sense if it gave you a small shield. Not as strong as BLM's Manaward (Especially since Manafication gives CDR on CaC) but a little something so if you do get cleaved, you don't hug the floor. Which would also still be useful for soloing.
    That's a thought I have considered, yes. However, I worry that attaching our defense to CaC would make it a virtual necessity to use it before the melee combo, which rather defeats the point of removing the damage from it. At least with a stun, not only do many enemies resist it but the diminishing returns are exactly a reason to reconsider using it, which would go a long way towards making it optional/"as needed" rather than popping it on cooldown.

    Bearing in mind, this is all assuming you have a Monk or Dragoon in the group in the first place, which is a pretty narrow margin if we're talking about Duties where alternating stun-terrupts actually matters as a strategy.
    In my experience that's like... one boss in Aurum Vale... and the occasional miniboss...?

    I'd rather have us receive an "Oh Shit" button separate from CaC, especially since a lot of scenarios where we'd need an Oh Shit button aren't necessarily limited to melee range. Or even having a target.
    (1)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 05-21-2019 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Mansion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,993
    Character
    Mansion Viscera
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post

    Like, the biggest obstacle with Displacement, isn't "Enemies chasing after you" it's Duty arenas being so small that using it will yeet you off the edge to your death.
    You need to master the VerYeet to truly ascend as a Red Mage:
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