Needs to be asked.....on Male Viera

[Schan]

This right here. During those first few moments during the presentation, we had no idea what was going on. When Yoshi-P said "If you paid attention to the Lore..." which made it seem like they were using the Lore excuse for the gender-lock, and the only thing we had to go by back then was his comment that Viera men might be "weird"... about a year before they actually revealed the male Viera artwork, leading us to think they actually gave it some thought (A very Au Ra-esque build, as well). Fast-forward and suddenly all we have to go on is that women are tall, slim and beautiful, while men are rough and bestial... because tall, slim men are "weird".

No, no no no no.

If i recall correctly the chain of events was: bunny men would be weird -> artwork of bunny men (i forgot the context of it and if it was something some people did in their free time which is not uncommon) -> Yoshi P saying that if people really want Viera he had to create a male only race since Viera are female

this was all years ago and people conveniently keep forgetting the bit Yoshi said Viera would be female only.

Over time I've been aware of a lot of requests for Viera. Not male or female Viera. Just Viera which lore-wise up until now... it's been exclusively female. I'm still wondering where this whole male thing came from.

This is why Yoshi P says we don't even know what we want. We as a community are terrible. We asked for Viera, we got it and still we're not happy because we want the males too.

[Gwenorai]

No, no no no no.

If i recall correctly the chain of events was: bunny men would be weird -> artwork of bunny men (i forgot the context of it and if it was something some people did in their free time which is not uncommon) -> Yoshi P saying that if people really want Viera he had to create a male only race since Viera are female

this was all years ago and people conveniently keep forgetting the bit Yoshi said Viera would be female only.

Over time I've been aware of a lot of requests for Viera. Not male or female Viera. Just Viera which lore-wise up until now... it's been exclusively female. I'm still wondering where this whole male thing came from.

This is why Yoshi P says we don't even know what we want. We as a community are terrible. We asked for Viera, we got it and still we're not happy because we want the males too.

I believe this spins off from the fact there has always been males. They have been mentioned in each game, if I recall - with more information being given to us in FF14. The only game that stated them as strictly female was a fault in one of the guides. The males always existed, we just didn't see them. So I believe the logic that was followed was a series of events that transpired from comments from Yoshida. While people voted for Viera a portion of them assumed that Yoshida would not go back on his word regarding the gender lock. His two comments contradicted one another, as it were.

When he stated that he would have a male-only race to balance out Viera, there was a time gap - after that, his team produced concept art of a male Viera - which we saw. Add this to the fact that we obviously got a large amount of lore about the males that yet again solidified that they do indeed exist.

Now, we know that it isn't lore that's the issue here. The original creator of Viera has already basically stated that lore isn't the reason - they were never female only, you just didn't see the males.

So no...

Honestly, the same issue would have transpired even if they didn't add in Viera and instead gave us Lupin. We've only seen Lupin males so far, yet we know females exist. If they added in Lupins instead of Hrothgar - Lupin's being the race that was asked for most after Viera - we would still have this complaining.

Assumptions were made; we shouldn't have done that. I was one of them, but ah well. That's the explantion of it all.

[WhiteArchmage]

Over time I've been aware of a lot of requests for Viera. Not male or female Viera. Just Viera which lore-wise up until now... it's been exclusively female. I'm still wondering where this whole male thing came from.

Final Fantasy XII Ultimania. Page 62. Viera are so isolationist that Men and Women live in different villages. They're not female only. I'll be glad to link you the Viera request thread when people were asking for males and females.

Also, on your comment about the artwork: it was shown because Viera were considered as HW's new race, but Au Ra beat them out. So at one point it was considered that Male and Female Viera would feature in XIV.

[Senn]

Over time I've been aware of a lot of requests for Viera. Not male or female Viera. Just Viera which lore-wise up until now... it's been exclusively female. I'm still wondering where this whole male thing came from.

Not true. I've been requesting male and female viera for years.
Here is my original viera thread where I requested both males and females twice in my OP. The OP is not edited.

[CoolDad]

If i recall correctly the chain of events was: bunny men would be weird -> artwork of bunny men (i forgot the context of it and if it was something some people did in their free time which is not uncommon) -> Yoshi P saying that if people really want Viera he had to create a male only race since Viera are female

this was all years ago and people conveniently keep forgetting the bit Yoshi said Viera would be female only.

Over time I've been aware of a lot of requests for Viera. Not male or female Viera. Just Viera which lore-wise up until now... it's been exclusively female. I'm still wondering where this whole male thing came from.

This is why Yoshi P says we don't even know what we want. We as a community are terrible. We asked for Viera, we got it and still we're not happy because we want the males too.

No, he said "a rabbit male might weird" and that they might have to make another counterpart in 2013 (Source: https://www.siliconera.com/2013/02/2...baby-behemoth/). Then the heavensward artwork including the bunny men was shown (however Yoshi said he didn't like how they looked and was hesitant to show it off because of that, iirc).

People expected male Viera partly because of the concept art that came out for Heavensward as well as the widespread belief by the community in general that this game wouldn't have races locked to certain genders because of the change from 1.0 to 2.0. If you look through the gender locked races thread (which was created when the female Viera were shown but not the males in the second fan fest) you'll see a fair bit of this.

Truthfully there wasn't any more reason not to expect male Viera than to expect them at the time. In fact many people were reading that dramaturge lore dump pretty hopefully, believing that they gave so much information to set up an event that would finally make male Viera visible or something, or that they wouldn't lore dump anything related to male Viera if they weren't going to add them (I believe this discussion happened mostly in the original Viera support thread?). People only started getting worried after the second fanfest and a little more so after the Hrothgar name drop bug in the French version.

omg why dont you all wait for tokyo fanfast? what the heck is your problems? Overreactions, y'all gonna look super dumb later.

Edit:

I still haven't found any information regarding that artwork though. was it something someone did on their free time? were they just brainstorming ideas?

Like I said. it's not the first time they show us stuff they have done for fun + on their free time. Why is everyone taking it as gospel? or is it just because if fits their view?

The artwork was official concept art created during the production of Heavensward, shown during a FATE in Tokyo event. It also included earlier designs for Au Ra that caused a bit of controversy as well.

[Schan]

No, he said "a rabbit male might weird" and that they might have to make another counterpart in 2013 (Source: https://www.siliconera.com/2013/02/2...baby-behemoth/). Then the heavensward artwork including the bunny men was shown (however Yoshi said he didn't like how they looked and was hesitant to show it off because of that, iirc).

People expected male Viera partly because of the concept art that came out for Heavensward as well as the widespread belief by the community in general that this game wouldn't have races locked to certain genders because of the change from 1.0 to 2.0. If you look through the gender locked races thread (which was created when the female Viera were shown but not the males in the second fan fest) you'll see a fair bit of this.

Truthfully there wasn't any more reason not to expect male Viera than to expect them at the time. In fact many people were reading that dramaturge lore dump pretty hopefully, believing that they gave so much information to set up an event that would finally make male Viera visible or something, or that they wouldn't lore dump anything related to male Viera if they weren't going to add them (I believe this discussion happened mostly in the original Viera support thread?). People only started getting worried after the second fanfest and a little more so after the Hrothgar name drop bug in the French version.

What I don't understand is that they kept flip flopping / contradicting themselves regarding male Viera. That should've made anyone wary. Instead people ignored what they didn't like and set themselves up for disappointment. The signs were there. People just turned a blind eye to it and then decided to blame SE for "disappointing" them when it was actually of their own doing....

edit: nvm

Ok but now you can't say you don't know where the request for male viera came from because one of the biggest viera threads on this forum for years was requesting both males and females in the OP.

true that. thanks.

[Gwenorai]

What I don't understand is that they kept flip flopping / contradicting themselves regarding male Viera. That should've made anyone wary. Instead people ignored what they didn't like and set themselves up for disappointment. The signs were there. People just turned a blind eye to it and then decided to blame SE for "disappointing" them when it was actually of their own doing....

Also if you want to list all the fact like you have, why did you left out the bit Yoshi P said Viera would be female only and he had to make a male race to make up for the Viera.

you're a prime example of what i'm talking about. Only listing the things that reinfoce your point of view instead of listing everything that happened.


true that.

Contradictions everywhere. We now know it's not lore that's the issue. So we should step away from the fact it was lore as the live letter mentioned, they could have added male and female Viera - or male and female Hrothgar. They decided to do half and half. Unfortunately, you can't speak for Yoshida, none of us can except the man himself and anyone who's relaying his thoughts personally.

Him thinking male Viera was weird = Negative
Him saying they may add Viera but make a male only race = Negative
Him showing male Viera with female Viera = Positive
The viera information that shows information on both genders = mixed
When asked about male Viera we was told to wait for tokyo = 'seen as a positive; but also could be seen as a negative'
Eorzea Encylopedia (Recent) mentioning all male Viera = Positive.
Yoshida saying that they wouldn't gender lock again = Positive

Very mixed signs.

We were getting a lot of mixed signs, and thus we have a bit of a mess. Anyway, now we have a live letter and we just need to wait for the affirmative on a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

[CoolDad]

What I don't understand is that they kept flip flopping / contradicting themselves regarding male Viera. That should've made anyone wary. Instead people ignored what they didn't like and set themselves up for disappointment. The signs were there. People just turned a blind eye to it and then decided to blame SE for "disappointing" them when it was actually of their own doing....

People had certain expectation based on the game's history and based on the fanart shown. It's fine if you think that people were putting much too faith in SE or were getting their expectations too high because of such things, but I don't think anyone is wrong for being disappointed. I thought that they'd be implementing gender locks fairly early on and the lore dump cemented it for me, but I was still sad when it was confirmed.

Edit: Saw your edit. Removed this section

[Schan]

People had certain expectation based on the game's history and based on the fanart shown. It's fine if you think that people were putting much too faith in SE or were getting their expectations too high because of such things, but I don't think anyone is wrong for being disappointed. I thought that they'd be implementing gender locks fairly early on and the lore dump cemented it for me, but I was still sad when it was confirmed.

Edit: Saw your edit. Removed this section

I'm not saying they're wrong to be disappointed. What I find disappointing is people setting themselves up and then blaming other people for it. You've set yourself up. Deal with it. Be it talking to others or creating your own fan art.... basically what I'm saying is: at the very least try to channel that energy into ... not something "destructive".

Elezen range from mature to "delicate" as well. Sure they aren't the typical buff male but they are also not exclusively "delicate". Effeminate? maybe that's the word i want to use instead of delicate.

I personally don't find Ayemeric / Haurchefant / Bradien effeminate. So what exactly did Yoshi P mean when he said Male Viera would be like Elezen?

If anyone could elaborate on their point of view as to why they are expecting Male Viera to be effeminate because Yoshi P said they would be like Elezen would be highly appreciated.

[Gwenorai]

If anyone could elaborate on their point of view as to why they are expecting Male Viera to be effeminate because Yoshi P said they would be like Elezen would be highly appreciated.

There's a small minority within those who want Viera for them to be effeminate. Nothing Yoshida has said has ever hinted to them being effeminate, some folks just want them to be that way and using the lore to push the narrative. Lore has it that male and female Viera can't be told apart until they hit puberty. Some people are taking this and running a mile with it to push for effeminate men.

The other side is that some people link bunny ears into homosexuality and that homosexual men are effeminate - but that's a whole another can of worms, it's just where the whole 'wahhh yoshida is a bigot' argument is coming from.