Needs to be asked.....on Male Viera

[Schan]

No, he said "a rabbit male might weird" and that they might have to make another counterpart in 2013 (Source: https://www.siliconera.com/2013/02/2...baby-behemoth/). Then the heavensward artwork including the bunny men was shown (however Yoshi said he didn't like how they looked and was hesitant to show it off because of that, iirc).

People expected male Viera partly because of the concept art that came out for Heavensward as well as the widespread belief by the community in general that this game wouldn't have races locked to certain genders because of the change from 1.0 to 2.0. If you look through the gender locked races thread (which was created when the female Viera were shown but not the males in the second fan fest) you'll see a fair bit of this.

Truthfully there wasn't any more reason not to expect male Viera than to expect them at the time. In fact many people were reading that dramaturge lore dump pretty hopefully, believing that they gave so much information to set up an event that would finally make male Viera visible or something, or that they wouldn't lore dump anything related to male Viera if they weren't going to add them (I believe this discussion happened mostly in the original Viera support thread?). People only started getting worried after the second fanfest and a little more so after the Hrothgar name drop bug in the French version.

What I don't understand is that they kept flip flopping / contradicting themselves regarding male Viera. That should've made anyone wary. Instead people ignored what they didn't like and set themselves up for disappointment. The signs were there. People just turned a blind eye to it and then decided to blame SE for "disappointing" them when it was actually of their own doing....

edit: nvm

Ok but now you can't say you don't know where the request for male viera came from because one of the biggest viera threads on this forum for years was requesting both males and females in the OP.

true that. thanks.

[Gwenorai]

What I don't understand is that they kept flip flopping / contradicting themselves regarding male Viera. That should've made anyone wary. Instead people ignored what they didn't like and set themselves up for disappointment. The signs were there. People just turned a blind eye to it and then decided to blame SE for "disappointing" them when it was actually of their own doing....

Also if you want to list all the fact like you have, why did you left out the bit Yoshi P said Viera would be female only and he had to make a male race to make up for the Viera.

you're a prime example of what i'm talking about. Only listing the things that reinfoce your point of view instead of listing everything that happened.


true that.

Contradictions everywhere. We now know it's not lore that's the issue. So we should step away from the fact it was lore as the live letter mentioned, they could have added male and female Viera - or male and female Hrothgar. They decided to do half and half. Unfortunately, you can't speak for Yoshida, none of us can except the man himself and anyone who's relaying his thoughts personally.

Him thinking male Viera was weird = Negative
Him saying they may add Viera but make a male only race = Negative
Him showing male Viera with female Viera = Positive
The viera information that shows information on both genders = mixed
When asked about male Viera we was told to wait for tokyo = 'seen as a positive; but also could be seen as a negative'
Eorzea Encylopedia (Recent) mentioning all male Viera = Positive.
Yoshida saying that they wouldn't gender lock again = Positive

Very mixed signs.

We were getting a lot of mixed signs, and thus we have a bit of a mess. Anyway, now we have a live letter and we just need to wait for the affirmative on a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

[CoolDad]

What I don't understand is that they kept flip flopping / contradicting themselves regarding male Viera. That should've made anyone wary. Instead people ignored what they didn't like and set themselves up for disappointment. The signs were there. People just turned a blind eye to it and then decided to blame SE for "disappointing" them when it was actually of their own doing....

People had certain expectation based on the game's history and based on the fanart shown. It's fine if you think that people were putting much too faith in SE or were getting their expectations too high because of such things, but I don't think anyone is wrong for being disappointed. I thought that they'd be implementing gender locks fairly early on and the lore dump cemented it for me, but I was still sad when it was confirmed.

Edit: Saw your edit. Removed this section

[Schan]

People had certain expectation based on the game's history and based on the fanart shown. It's fine if you think that people were putting much too faith in SE or were getting their expectations too high because of such things, but I don't think anyone is wrong for being disappointed. I thought that they'd be implementing gender locks fairly early on and the lore dump cemented it for me, but I was still sad when it was confirmed.

Edit: Saw your edit. Removed this section

I'm not saying they're wrong to be disappointed. What I find disappointing is people setting themselves up and then blaming other people for it. You've set yourself up. Deal with it. Be it talking to others or creating your own fan art.... basically what I'm saying is: at the very least try to channel that energy into ... not something "destructive".

Elezen range from mature to "delicate" as well. Sure they aren't the typical buff male but they are also not exclusively "delicate". Effeminate? maybe that's the word i want to use instead of delicate.

I personally don't find Ayemeric / Haurchefant / Bradien effeminate. So what exactly did Yoshi P mean when he said Male Viera would be like Elezen?

If anyone could elaborate on their point of view as to why they are expecting Male Viera to be effeminate because Yoshi P said they would be like Elezen would be highly appreciated.

[Gwenorai]

If anyone could elaborate on their point of view as to why they are expecting Male Viera to be effeminate because Yoshi P said they would be like Elezen would be highly appreciated.

There's a small minority within those who want Viera for them to be effeminate. Nothing Yoshida has said has ever hinted to them being effeminate, some folks just want them to be that way and using the lore to push the narrative. Lore has it that male and female Viera can't be told apart until they hit puberty. Some people are taking this and running a mile with it to push for effeminate men.

The other side is that some people link bunny ears into homosexuality and that homosexual men are effeminate - but that's a whole another can of worms, it's just where the whole 'wahhh yoshida is a bigot' argument is coming from.

[WhiteArchmage]

Also i'm pretty ure the WoL is older than 13 years old sooo uuuh... we don't know how much they change after that. Elezen range from mature to "delicate" as well. Sure they aren't the typical buff male but they are also not exclusively "delicate". Effeminate? maybe that's the word i want to use instead of delicate.

I personally don't find Ayemeric / Haurchefant / Bradien effeminate. So what exactly did Yoshi P mean when he said they would be like Elezen?

First two parts were already answered (and it's besides the point) so skipping that. Yeah, we don't know how much the Viera change after puberty, it's just imagining that they wouldn't be hit with a dimorphism as weird as Au Ra. More like Males would still be tall and either slender but cut or buff because of their lifestyle.

I can't find the quote right now but he said in the MrHappy interview that male Viera would be "Perhaps an elezen body with a miqo’te face and bunny ears" afterwars he refered to them as tall, elegant, and slender (although I can't find the actual quote for that yet).

I'm not being a smart-arse this time, just answering those points. We're also not expecting them to be "effeminate", in fact, Lauront's poll (here) pointed that most people (who answered it, ofc) would like either a Elezen-like or Au Ra-like body type, in the support thread we generally agreed to let the devs make their vision of the race.

[Schan]

There's a small minority within those who want Viera for them to be effeminate. Nothing Yoshida has said has ever hinted to them being effeminate, some folks just want them to be that way and using the lore to push the narrative. Lore has it that male and female Viera can't be told apart until they hit puberty. Some people are taking this and running a mile with it to push for effeminate men.

Considering how people are like... I'm not surprised. I should've known people would stretch things so they can get what they want. Thank you.

[CoolDad]

I'm not saying they're wrong to be disappointed. What I find disappointing is people setting themselves up and then blaming other people for it. You've set yourself up. Deal with it. Be it talking to others or creating your own fan art.... basically what I'm saying is: at the very least try to channel that energy into ... not something "destructive".

There's definitely something to be said on part of both players AND developers for setting reasonable expectations. There was a lack of transparency and communication during and after the second fanfest that caused a great deal of people to hold onto their confidence in FFXIV being a game without genderlocks that could have been acknowledged early on but were not for the sake of making Hrothgar a surprise. The infamous "wait until tokyo fanfest" interview, for example.

In this situation, where SE had been giving signs that they were both in favor of adding male Viera and signs that they were not, I feel it is both the fault of the development team for the way they communicated this and failed to set expectations, as well as the users who were taking the more troubling signs and spinning them into incontrovertibly positive ones.

[SahreeYurblu]

From what I have seen it looks to fall into the spectrum of double standards and feeling under represented. Many LGBT ( not all ) people feel like the exclusion of male viera was an attack on a more fem male model or at the very least the fact that girls are allowed to be sexy but boys have to be a burly and manly. Along with comments about male bunnies being "weird" in a interview, the dev team feeling uncomfortable making the gold saucer bunny outfit for men and using "lore" as an excuse at fan fest but then immediately admitting it had more to do with time and variety. It helped push those feelings of being mislead and not valued as a demographic along. I am not going to quit but I can see why they may feel that way but Yoshi has stated the reasons and I truly believe he wanted to make everyone happy.

I have no idea from the concept art for HW how anyone got the idea we'd have this super feminine male Vieras. Also in a fantasy world, how the hell do people get the idea that any of them are LGBT or trans? They're pixels. Here's the original concept art.

[dustdjinn]

I have no idea from the concept art for HW how anyone got the idea we'd have this super feminine male Vieras. Also in a fantasy world, how the hell do people get the idea that any of them are LGBT or trans? They're pixels. Here's the original concept art.

I am just telling you what I heard not that I believed they would be and I didn't say SUPER fem but I think many envisioned more soft features. I think the fact the females are beautiful people assumed the males would have to be too and the idea of being a smaller segregated group that wasn't truly understood resonated with the LGTB. (Maybe it has something to do all women living together and all men living together only getting together to reproduce.) The community didn't assume the race was full of gays but we related to them and could have projected a rejection of them as a rejection of us.

You may argue being gay has nothing to do with male viera but it was the first insult used to discredit them so it seems like everyone sees a connection on both sides.