is there a point to using Royal authority in your pally rotation?

[SleepyNeko]

You don't need to have a big lead in enmity to tank, you just need to be able to lead the enmity race throughout the whole fight.

Just ignore all this talk about 1 enmity over or that enmity is useless discussion, you will use Royal authority because you don't need the bonus enmity from RoH and you can always do with more damage. You might use RoH at the start if you are pulling or if some dps are not using their only enmity management.

[Izsha]

The thing is you dont have to build some imaginary number of 'aheadness' in enmity. You just look at the white bars in the party list. If you have all of 2 pixels ahead of the #2, then you need to generate some enmity. If you have a large gap continue to do DPS until that gap becomes close again. Once you get more comfortable with your jobs timings, you will know when you do and dont need enmity. EG: If my IR window is 10 seconds away and i see people closing in, I know I can survive until i spam out double damage Fell cleaves and the free double damage onslaught with a 10x enmity modifier to put me back ahead. If I am 40 seconds away from IR and they are closing in I use my brain and realize I need to burn some onslaughts or use a butchers to tide me over, etc.

You dont need some absurd 300 THOUSAND enmity lead to afk until shirk is up. You just watch the stupid bars and if they are close, you make enmity. If they arent you dps. Yall really trying to over complicate this.

If HP is low, healers heal. If HP bars are high you dont. If white enmity bars show a large lead you dps. If they are close you enmity up some.

[Megguido]

You dont need some absurd 300 THOUSAND enmity lead to afk until shirk is up. You just watch the stupid bars and if they are close, you make enmity. If they arent you dps. Yall really trying to over complicate this.

While your first statement is true, the "300k aggro" isn't absurd. It's literally DRK MT opener (4 GCD under Grit). It isn't necessary but it makes sure those "oh-shit the garbage-RDM didn't use Diversion on pull" moments won't happen.

Maybe it's a personal preference, but I always make a bit more aggro than necessary when playing with randoms. Some people won't use their aggro-dump abilities because they don't know they are useful, some people won't use them because "lol ur tank, it's ur job to keep hate, u don't need diversion". Sacrificing like 200 DPS to avoid potential wipes (or to avoid retards arguing over who's fault it is) is worth it imo.

[Melichoir]

Hmmm, Ok.

So Enmity (threat) is based on your skills. Certain skills generate bonus enmity ontop of the damage they deal. This would be like RoH combo. But all your skills generate threat.

For tanking purposes, as long as your number 1 on threat, even by one point, you have aggro and that is all you technically need. However, living on the edge like that is silly and fairly irresponsible. You should have an ok lead on threat so when the DPS enter a burst phase, or healers pound out some heavy heals, they dont rip it off you. The goal is to learn how much breathing space you need. You dont need so much threat that the only way people will overtake you is if you get log out, delete your character, and then uninstall the game, but you dont want it to be a situation where a fart from a DPS causes the boss to spin around and smash them into the floor.

It's also worth noting that for more complex fights, you may need to maintain second highest aggro, so that balancing trick gets a bit more fun.

Give yourself enough breathing room that you can dps without losing aggro, but not so much your over sacrificing DPS for that threat. That's the part of learning to tank in this game.

[Bright-Flower]

Hmmm, Ok.

So Enmity (threat) is based on your skills. Certain skills generate bonus enmity ontop of the damage they deal. This would be like RoH combo. But all your skills generate threat.

For tanking purposes, as long as your number 1 on threat, even by one point, you have aggro and that is all you technically need. However, living on the edge like that is silly and fairly irresponsible. You should have an ok lead on threat so when the DPS enter a burst phase, or healers pound out some heavy heals, they dont rip it off you. The goal is to learn how much breathing space you need. You dont need so much threat that the only way people will overtake you is if you get log out, delete your character, and then uninstall the game, but you dont want it to be a situation where a fart from a DPS causes the boss to spin around and smash them into the floor.

It's also worth noting that for more complex fights, you may need to maintain second highest aggro, so that balancing trick gets a bit more fun.

Give yourself enough breathing room that you can dps without losing aggro, but not so much your over sacrificing DPS for that threat. That's the part of learning to tank in this game.

In a fight where you need to be second on threat I assume there would be a lot of use of provoke and shirk from the two tanks to manipulate their enmity. At least in an organized group.

And yeah you don't want to be literally 1 point of enmity over the next person on the enmity list, but maintaining a healthy lead usually doesn't mean haivng to use the rage of halone combo over the royal authority combo, at least outside of the start ofa fight where you build an early lead.

[Melichoir]

In a fight where you need to be second on threat I assume there would be a lot of use of provoke and shirk from the two tanks to manipulate their enmity. At least in an organized group.

And yeah you don't want to be literally 1 point of enmity over the next person on the enmity list, but maintaining a healthy lead usually doesn't mean haivng to use the rage of halone combo over the royal authority combo, at least outside of the start ofa fight where you build an early lead.

Proper Voke-Shirking between the two tanks will ensure you two remain 1 and 2 on threat and generally not worry about enmity. The caveat is the cool downs. Certain fights will need you to shirk to tank swap so you cant just do it whenever youd like, and htis gets complicated if both tanks need to be 1 and 2 on threat early. 012S Final needs both tanks to be 1 and 2 on threat almost immediately for Tank buster, followed by the necessity to have shirk and voke up for Hello World. You can get away with a lot though by properly managing provoke and ultimatum.

And yeah, it comes down to finding a balance between DPS and Threat Combos. I know I was being specific but there are a lot of tanks (I myself being one until this xpac) who think that as a tank, all you do is sit in tank stance and maintain threat. It's true the first thing a tank must do is tank - so that means keep aggro and manage damage taken so you dont die. That is paramount. Dead tanks do no dps, afterall. But its not the whole thing. Telling tanks "As long as you have 1 threat more than everyone else, your fine," I think is the reverse problem - youre not managing aggro correctly if DPS are on you like that. Cause yeah, playing like that in savage means a healer or DPS will pull aggro at the wrong moment, get tagged with an a tank buster, and blow up the group. Ive seen it happen in 011S - DPS got aggro and marked for a mustard bomb, killed everyone in the group except the MT OT and Bard. Regardless if dps have aggro dumps, as tank you are responsible for threat. So if that means you gotta spam Rage or DAPS or Butchers to keep your aggro up (While communicating with DPS to manage theirs), then thats what you gotta do.

[Kabooa]

So if that means you gotta spam Rage or DAPS or Butchers to keep your aggro up (While communicating with DPS to manage theirs), then thats what you gotta do.

This part I want to highlight because that's the reason I threw the '300k' number out.

Last tier the number was 220k. This was if you had a Monk or Samurai (Before Merciful Eyes got changed and forever invalidated Seigan), and basically was the number you needed a lead by to maintain the hate lead until the Monk/Samurai or even Ninja until Diversion was ready for them again, assuming tank dps of around 4k and melee dps of around 6k. Conservative 'average' player numbers.

Contrary to what's being said in this thread (Just add more threat later), you lose -much more dps- by trying to rectify your threat lead later than just establishing it early.

[Izsha]

This part I want to highlight because that's the reason I threw the '300k' number out.

Last tier the number was 220k. This was if you had a Monk or Samurai (Before Merciful Eyes got changed and forever invalidated Seigan), and basically was the number you needed a lead by to maintain the hate lead until the Monk/Samurai or even Ninja until Diversion was ready for them again, assuming tank dps of around 4k and melee dps of around 6k. Conservative 'average' player numbers.

Contrary to what's being said in this thread (Just add more threat later), you lose -much more dps- by trying to rectify your threat lead later than just establishing it early.

Shirk. Unless you are trying to hero tank a dungeon, the 'survive until next diversion' is now 'Survive the party openers, then use TWO shirks within 2 minutes while diversion comes back up while using your enmity boosters (swipe, scorn, DAPlunge, IR onslaught, etc)'.

Yes ~300k is a reasonable number, but YOU dont have to generate all of it thanks to shirk multipliers and that still ignores ninja and the enmity bosted moves in rotation. AND you dont have to generate all if it up front. Shirks can be spaced out to generate even leverage higher enmity to multiply later. Pld can pull in sword oath if the party works together and it isnt because hes doing 300k in ROH. And thats before you acccount for the 'minor' dps loss options for enmity to tide you over if things get tight like using onslaught outside of IR, dark passenger, etc if you just need to make the last leg until shirk/diversion/whatever is up.

If you are under the 'assumption' that DPS are using diversion and that is the target to aim for, then you should also assume shirks. If you are getting zero assist of any kind then your party is dumb and will pay for it with lower tank dps to generate enmity. But id you are counting the time between diversions, then you are assuming your party is assisting and you have no need to do it all yourself.

To be quite honest, anyone i have played with that doesnt do basic things like hit diversion tends to be a bad/undergeared player anyway and has no prayer of catching my tank enmity anyway, or they are a good player and hit enmity buttons. Its a rather self solving problem.

[Kabooa]

Shirk.

Yep. It's factored in there, generally in Ninja no-tank stance openers.

[Melichoir]

In a perfect scenario where no errors are being made, certain things do apply and remain true. But for practicality (running with people who dont diversion as often, accidently making a mistake in an opener, gear differences, etc) it is worth noting that if you have to do something, you do it. While it should be encouraged to do the correct thing, people arent perfect, mistakes may happen, and understanding that if it comes down to it and you gotta spam the aggro combo, then thats what you have to do. It's not ideal, by no stretch of the imagination, but as tank, you gotta do what you gotta do to do your job. As a point, lets say you made a mistake and over cooled down, so youre missing a CD. For a tank buster, go to grit along with your remaining CDs. Is it ideal? No. Will you die? Maybe. But sitting there saying "Welp, made a mistake, now it's better to just straight up die than use what I have left in my kit and trying to make do to continue." Or if a healer makes a mistake and dies, using your CDs or Grit differently to reduce healing required so they get back on their feet. Etc etc.

These arent perfect solutions to a problem, and are incredibly unideal, but it's more about if the mistake happens, then you gotta do what you gotta do to make it better. Practice to do perfect, but be ready to adapt.