New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[linay]

Keep in mind I see after a certain amount of content as a new game, this is why I keep bringing up games in a series. So I do think it is fair to see having to do 100+ hours of content you dont want to do to get to the expansion you did as a fair vision of an accessibility issue. Like Rokke said he came to this game to do the dragon content and had to trudge through ARR to get it.

The longer we go the bigger the time requirement of course. Also I'm not thinking of an accelerated start to drop people at end game but to put them at the gates of fairly new stuff that they were getting into the game for like Rokke's story (so they avoid say 100 hours of msq but still have some more related to their interest hours to go till end game). Again to me I shouldn't have to play warcraft 2 to get into warcraft 3, and I see at a certain point FFXIV should be seen in units like that because it's too freaking big otherwise lol. If you want wc3 then you should have to invest in wc3, that doesn't require investing wc2 though.

Except you can buy and play Warcraft 3 without ever having to touch Warcraft 2. The same is not true for FFXIV and its expansions, so it's improper to view it as something that it's not and then judge it based on how well it fits the criteria of that wrong view. That's like saying you should just be able to go to the end game of any game without having your character go through the game.

[Physic]

Considering I like playing alts, yes, because it would directly affect my experience in the game. Making the msq essentially become side content would very much change the core of how it feels to progress through the game. It would drastically change the game for me. The msq is one of the major factors that drew me to this game. Of course I don't want its pivotal position removed.

I also would be shocked if it happened because it frankly would be a colossal waste of money and time to turn msq content into side content when SE could use that time and money to fix content that is universally agreed to not be working properly (housing) or to make actual new content. Especially when you consider those who have such a big problem with it as much as you have are very much a minority in this game, and furthermore you can quickly flick through the msq or use a skip potion. It's not as if you are forced to watch every scrap of lore very slowly like in msq roulette. And unless you make alts the msq only needs to be done once.

As for those saying "but I have seen the msq make players quit" yea, I have too. But I also saw the lvling experience in WoW, BDO, STO, ESO and GW2 make people quit.

Should any of these games make major changes to the lvling experience in them because a handful of players didn't like it? No, of course not. It's impossible to please everyone. The best you can do is please your target audience, and SE are doing a good job at that as far as the msq is concerned. There is some serious hype for the ShB msq. Far more than there was for SB. And the hype is there because those players know what happened in the story up to that point.



Yea WoW's lvling experience changed over time. The things you had to do didn't really change, but the degree of challenge and time investment did. I understand trimming the time investment due to the amount of lvls, but there was no need to let the old content become so deteriorated that mobs would fall over if you so much as sneeze in their general direction. I saw this make a lot of new players quit. They were bored.

the only thing that would change for you, in my version, is there would be an npc that you could talk to to unlock all content if you choose. Are you saying inspite of loving the msq so much, you wouldnt do it if you didnt have to? interesting

[Penthea]

the only thing that would change for you, in my version, is there would be an npc that you could talk to to unlock all content if you choose.

So basically you want SE to present two versions of the game to players? Yea good luck convincing them that this is worth their time and money when the majority of the playerbase are fine with the msq being central to the game.

Really if your solution is to have another version of the game...maybe you should just play another game seeing as the current version of this one clearly isn't what you want.

Are you saying inspite of loving the msq so much, you wouldnt do it if you didnt have to? interesting

Where are you getting that from? Nowhere did I say I wouldn't do it if I didn't have to. I even said to you several pages ago that I often reread and rewatch the msq on my alts on parts I have forgotten or parts I recall enjoying. Are you now resorting to putting words into my mouth to support your argument? Lol?

EDIT: it occurs to me you perhaps say this under assumption of how I would feel about the msq under your proposed version of FFXIV. I would still do it if the experience was identical to how it is now.

That being said I'm not sure if I could continue playing if SE decided to step in the direction of granting players the option to skip so much content for free. I don't particularly want to play a game in which the devs dramatically cut down on what you must do to earn something. Blizzard did that to WoW and replaced a lot of hard work with rng...and well look at how far down the mighty king has fallen.

[linay]

the only thing that would change for you, in my version, is there would be an npc that you could talk to to unlock all content if you choose. Are you saying inspite of loving the msq so much, you wouldnt do it if you didnt have to? interesting

Speaking for myself, part of loving/enjoying the story is knowing that it is an integral part of the game. Making it optional content would trivialize it, and by changing the structure of the game in such a way, could indeed make me lose (at least some if not all) interest in the story in the same way I sometimes have little interest in doing side quests simply for the story. In fact, as I've said in the past, it really won't be MSQ, just a long side quest at that point.

[Vahlnir]

Speaking for myself, part of loving/enjoying the story is knowing that it is an integral part of the game. Making it optional content would trivialize it, and by changing the structure of the game in such a way, could indeed make me lose (at least some if not all) interest in the story in the same way I sometimes have little interest in doing side quests simply for the story. In fact, as I've said in the past, it really won't be MSQ, just a long side quest at that point.

Well said. Part of why I fell out of love with WoW was the fact that they lost their focus on the journey being just as important as the destination. It's all about getting to max level as fast as you can and grinding content that makes Eureka look like a masterpiece. So while I understand why people may want to be able to skip through the story, I don't necessarily approve. People can use jump potions and story skips and that is their prerogative, but they are losing out on the part that matters: the journey.

[Iscah]

You didn't answer my question. What would the max lvl msq of old expacs being optional(not the old expac lvling stuff) hurt?

It hurts the importance of that chapter of the MSQ. It implies that it's less important and that you're free to skip it if you want.

That's not the case at all. Post-ARR gets disproportionately remembered for its most tedious objective points (an issue throughout ARR, not just in the patches, when it sets up a lot of important characters - Yugiri, Aymeric, Ilberd, Moenbryda, Midgardsormr... critical events happen, and some of them are still impacting the plot today.

Then you get to post-Heavensward, which actually is the conclusion to Heavensward.


Maybe the fact that the quest level doesn't change creates an impression of "not making progress", but it's just as important as the rest of the MSQ.

We are talking about the New Player Experience, right? In what world is there a level minimum to be classified as a new player? I don't get the point you're trying to make. Why do I need to be a veteran player to gain insight on the new player experience? If anything, it's the other way around.

The reason (being overplayed to some degree, but not entirely) is that you haven't been through a few slow periods in the MSQ when the plot gets bogged down in fetch quests for the sake of it - there's a stretch around Lv30, then Lv40, and parts of the Lv50 post-credits ARR story. But personally I didn't find it anywhere near as terrible as some people make it out to be. The plot is still moving and important things are happening, and it's building up to a climax that's worth getting through the dud bits.

[Physic]

So basically you want SE to present two versions of the game to players? Yea good luck convincing them that this is worth their time and money when the majority of the playerbase are fine with the msq being central to the game.

Really if your solution is to have another version of the game...maybe you should just play another game seeing as the current version of this one clearly isn't what you want.



Where are you getting that from? Nowhere did I say I wouldn't do it if I didn't have to. I even said to you several pages ago that I often reread and rewatch the msq on my alts on parts I have forgotten or parts I recall enjoying. Are you now resorting to putting words into my mouth to support your argument? Lol?

EDIT: it occurs to me you perhaps say this under assumption of how I would feel about the msq under your proposed version of FFXIV. I would still do it if the experience was identical to how it is now.

That being said I'm not sure if I could continue playing if SE decided to step in the direction of granting players the option to skip so much content for free. I don't particularly want to play a game in which the devs dramatically cut down on what you must do to earn something. Blizzard did that to WoW and replaced a lot of hard work with rng...and well look at how far down the mighty king has fallen.

it wouldnt require making another version of the game, its already there, its just who gets access to it. But as you say in the edit, its more about the hypothetical situation.

Speaking for myself, part of loving/enjoying the story is knowing that it is an integral part of the game. Making it optional content would trivialize it, and by changing the structure of the game in such a way, could indeed make me lose (at least some if not all) interest in the story in the same way I sometimes have little interest in doing side quests simply for the story. In fact, as I've said in the past, it really won't be MSQ, just a long side quest at that point.

this is interesting, i personally do main story in most games i play regardless of the requirements, but you are saying you only do it if its required. I do side story optionally, based on its rewards, or how compelling it is, or how burnt out i am, in the case of ffxiv main story usually uses up most of my willingness to quest.

Well said. Part of why I fell out of love with WoW was the fact that they lost their focus on the journey being just as important as the destination. It's all about getting to max level as fast as you can and grinding content that makes Eureka look like a masterpiece. So while I understand why people may want to be able to skip through the story, I don't necessarily approve. People can use jump potions and story skips and that is their prerogative, but they are losing out on the part that matters: the journey.

while i may prefer most people having some concept of the story, the reality is, them playing story is not core to my enjoyment, and the ship already sailed, 40% of the people i interact with already ignore story, so really the only difference would be, they wouldnt be burning out/prevented from content. It always slightly irks me when they have no idea who raubhan is, or the echo, but that ship has already sailed, its not worth losing these type of players for something that is not how they will spend most of their time in the long run.


Ideally, i think if the story mostly occured more naturally, some might get drawn in, but i have no illusions they would somehow make huge changes to the way story is presented. They probably couldnt do as much story if it was more incorporated.


At the end of the day my goal, is to have the content be accessible for many types of players, its not about how i play, (which is mostly completing story)

also ARR is definitely not the best foot forward story wise, but thats a different issue

[KarmaLad]

Hmm, I kind of see your point, sort of. On the one hand I'll have to agree to the fact that ARR's story at the start is sort of dull and I can see why people choose to skip the dialogue/cutscenes, however I personally believe that gives it a certain charm. You don't start off with this grand backstory of you being the last survivor of a huge siege or anything of the like, you're a measly adventurer making your way through events that wrap you up in some (in my opinion) interesting plots. Sort of happens the same with the leveling system, ya ain't a power house that can take on a pack of 5 monsters at a time. But I digress, of course not everyone's opinion is gonna match and for that I feel that SE has been thoughtful enough to add the story-skipping potion, I don't see what else they could do for people like yourself specifically when you're in the minority. Maybe expand upon the concept of the Unending Journey? No idea. Just trying to throw my two cents into the mix here and I didn't exactly read through any of the pages because of how many there are so if these points have already been dealt with I do apologise in advance.

[SamSmoot]

They are sorting this out with Shadowbringers, it'll have a new game + feature so you can go back and redo the story without starting over.

Does the skip potion provide you with a suitable ilevel gear set to allow you to continue with the content? If you skip at level one and end up still equipped with level 1 gear and no gil, you're out of luck.

[Iscah]

Does the skip potion provide you with a suitable ilevel gear set to allow you to continue with the content? If you skip at level one and end up still equipped with level 1 gear and no gil, you're out of luck.

From boosting my alt to story Lv50, I received silver chocobo feathers (which can be traded for Ironworks gear) and a fair amount of Allagan pieces - 300,000 gil worth if I remember correctly, though I didn't need the money immmediately so I'm hoarding them to use for the Doman reconstruction quest hand-ins. Eventually.