New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Razard]

Again, you have not been a faceless hero for some time now in WoW. The last 3 expacs at the very least. Hell in legion you were the leader of your class with a one of a kind weapon(Ashbringer for Ret pally). Npcs call you by title(commander,champion of the horde/alliance,archmage) rather then name likely due to server limitations. That doesn't seem much different then what FF has.

The difference is that your title in WoW means nothing in the grand sceme of things. The "Real" stuff is done by the important "Real" characters kill stealing and doing important plot stuff with their Mary Sue powers. The plot can move on without you and not even know.

Whereas in FFXIV the plot cannot function without the main player. Despite being a voiceless avatar, the WoL has accomplished many great things and the characters on the world acknowledge those deeds, by name.

[Miles064]

[QUOTE=Melichoir;4973737]Then that's a design change theyre moving into, not one they were starting with. And this still doesnt change certain aspects because most of the game treats you as a faceless hero. If theyre trying to reverse direction by adopting some of FFXIVs set up, Im not opposed to it. But I dunno if thta would make the difference. Particularly with Gating turned off. Meaning, if Legion I dont care about the events and continue to just lvl, I can skip the back half of it and hit the newest xpac without resolving anything. That makes your actions less important. The world spins on and on regardless of whether you do anything. That isnt the case in FFXIV with the MSQ.


I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. If you skip the old story of course its going to have less impact. If you care to know what happened you can still do it. You have the option either way. You can even refuse to go to the next expac till you finish the one you are on if you want to keep the flow of the story, or you can just keep lvling up. FF just doesn't have that option and the more that gets added the larger the gate becomes. What kind of mmo forces hours and hours of mandatory single player fluff before letting you get to all the current group stuff? And I'm saying this as someone who is hyped as hell about the story going into ShB.

As for the world spinning regardless of the player, pretty much everything that happened in WoW happened for a reason. Zones will even change depending on your progress into the stories. The game just doesn't force you to go around the world and do it if you don't want too.

[Miles064]

The difference is that your title in WoW means nothing in the grand sceme of things. The "Real" stuff is done by the important "Real" characters kill stealing and doing important plot stuff with their Mary Sue powers. The plot can move on without you and not even know.

Whereas in FFXIV the plot cannot function without the main player. Despite being a voiceless avatar, the WoL has accomplished many great things and the characters on the world acknowledge those deeds, by name.

That is a fair point. Id argue that the player in WoW is like 80% of the reason things are even able to move on and that ff14 npcs seem completely helpless without the WoL around most of the time, but a fair point none the less.

[DPZ2]

I hope you're arguing in good faith, just that I'm not sure as it doesn't feel like it. Obviously you're wherever the intro leaves you lol, whatever info that may be.

Seriously, I wanted something a bit more specific...

How, in two hours, do you encompass the entirety of the story line up to level 50-60-70 and assure a basic competency in playing your job? There is a reason for all of the solo and group instances in the main and job story-lines beyond just telling the story.

The longest period of down-time in this game is the 100+ main story quests between the end of 2.0 and the beginning of Heavensward. I could see a 'skip forward with movies' at that point since you don't actually learn anything new for your job. Then again, you can get that with a story-skip potion already, so I don't see SE creating that content since it already exists and there is a way to see it. [Hint - do the level 50 story skip alone once you reach level 50, since the current job skip takes you to level 60].

You had better be sure to watch the cut-scenes surrounding "Keeper of the Lake" quests, since a lot of Heavensward makes no sense without them.

[Penthea]

Again. All I want is past expacs max lvl stories to be skip able.

Sorry but I feel like if you want to skip the most central element of the game then maybe this game isn't for you. I would say the same thing to players who want a msq similar to FFXIV in WoW.

If you disagree with the most prevalent and fundamental way a game leads you through its content, then you need to play something else if you can't find a way to deal with it.

When I could no longer deal with how WoW was I just left it behind. I didn't demand change that would have turned the player progression into something very different to how it was before. I didn't go to the forums and ask for a msq, because I enjoyed it in FFXIV. I accepted that WoW didn't have one and turned my attention to the game that does.

[Shougun]

Seriously, I wanted something a bit more specific...

You asked me to write out three different intros in detail of all that they'd do, that's a huge ask lol. That's like having issues on a job or wanting a new job and then having them detail every point of the job, maybe possible but yeeeeehaaaaa what series of details. You may have wanted something more specific but that'd take me a long while to put down into words.

So I responded with the general "whatever was the target direction is what they'd leave you with". You don't need to know everything to avoid being lost further in the story. I skipped most of bard because I found it a bit eh, but read the last few and was fine lol (and I didn't get a guide to do it , something like I'm trying to upgrade/get skip potions to have a guide and short summary that can also hook someone in). Which I am trying to go away from skip potions as I don't like skip potions as they are - they don't have enough balance and investment hooks in my opinion, I know some people think we need a lot more investment but I believe many would be fine with a more grazing investment.. but currently skip potions have zero and I think that's an issue.

How, in two hours, do you encompass the entirety of the story line up to level 50-60-70 and assure a basic competency in playing your job?

Simple since our competency levels have been abysmal since ever, pressing buttons is a strong start . I suggested many pages ago that you'd start out with your job at around level 30 and quickly remember up until whatever cap you were set to be at. Also many of the job quests don't teach anything anyways- which I wish they did, and the ones that are harder usually get nerfed down after complaints lol.

Also would suggest that the novice / intermediate / advanced halls are tied deeper into the game experience for all players (lower halls being great rewards perhaps but still optional, while extreme content requiring advanced hall completion), skipper players and not (slow burn lore readers too).

You had better be sure to watch the cut-scenes surrounding "Keeper of the Lake" quests, since a lot of Heavensward makes no sense without them.

Anything that is DIRE info would be included, but there is a lot of world building info that isn't dire. Like Ascian is almost purely covered in just painting them as the bad guy, you lose so much little info but just making them "a mysterious baddy trying to revive Zodiark by sowing chaos" is all you need to not be completely lost (on Ascians).

[Miles064]

Sorry but I feel like if you want to skip the most central element of the game then maybe this game isn't for you. I would say the same thing to players who want a msq similar to FFXIV in WoW.

If you disagree with the most prevalent and fundamental way a game leads you through its content, then you need to play something else if you can't find a way to deal with it.

When I could no longer deal with how WoW was I just left it behind. I didn't demand change that would have turned the player progression into something very different to how it was before. I didn't go to the forums and ask for a msq, because I enjoyed it in FFXIV. I accepted that WoW didn't have one and turned my attention to the game that does.

So what you are saying is that FF14 is a single player game with mmo elements tacked on? That the focus is not the group elements but the single player? What does forcing you to go through the story add to this game? What would making it optional hurt? And not all of it optional, just the stuff for previous expacs. I enjoyed the story and would have done it if it was optional because I enjoyed it. Is someone else skipping past the old stuff supposed to hurt me in some way? "This isn't the game for you"? Should I just say "welp I really enjoy the classes,music,bosses,dungeons, etc but because I feel this thing should be adjusted I guess I'll have to drop the entire game"?

Sorry, it sounds like you want everyone else to go through the story because you did. The story in this game is one piece of the puzzle. Some care, some dont. You can enjoy playing a game without caring about whats going on.

[Penthea]

Sorry, it sounds like you want everyone else to go through the story because you did. The story in this game is one piece of the puzzle. Some care, some dont. You can enjoy playing a game without caring about whats going on.

No I'm saying accept the game for what it is. I accepted WoW for what is was and when it became unacceptable to me I left the game. Asking for a msq to be inserted into WoW is just as ridiculous as asking for FFXIV to have the msq become removed or optional. I would have loved to have seen a msq in WoW but I recognised the game wasn't designed for that sort of storytelling. Players like you need to recognise that FFXIV is designed for it.

If you can't handle the main way the game leads you through content, well you're in luck because there are other games you can play that make you progress differently.

[DPZ2]

snip

After which, you are ... where?

The three examples were end-points for your two hour streamlined intro to the game, not a suggestion to provide detailed synopsis for each.

The current job/story skip potions already fulfill most of what you appear to want. What's still missing?

[Miles064]

No I'm saying accept the game for what it is. I accepted WoW for what is was and when it became unacceptable to me I left the game. Asking for a msq to be inserted into WoW is just as ridiculous as asking for FFXIV to have the msq become removed or optional. I would have loved to have seen a msq in WoW but I recognised the game wasn't designed for that sort of storytelling. Players like you need to recognise that FFXIV is designed for it.

If you can't handle the main way the game leads you through content, well you're in luck because there are other games you can play that make you progress differently.

You didn't answer my question. What would the max lvl msq of old expacs being optional(not the old expac lvling stuff) hurt?