Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[SturmChurro]

Thanks.

The problem here is what, exactly, is the target demographic? If we look at this charitably, and go by build (hence the underlined picks), yes, you can get it up to 30%, but then the question arises as to why Roegadyn aren't succeeding at capturing these players. Anyone who wants such a build without the bestial face, a la Draenei, would qualify as such.

From other MMOs, we know that Charr are played to the tune of 13%, Orcs in TESO to the tune of 5% (the figure rises if you add Khajit, but their build and aesthetic is very different both to Roegadyn build in terms of features and Hrothgar in terms of build), no idea what Bless's figures are. Meanwhile, in this game the Roegadyn build already exists for people who are not bothered by playing such a character without embellishments like fangs and we know where its figures sit at.

If you include ESO, I think they sent something out a few years ago that high elf was the most played race (official). However, one thing about ESO is people play races for their racial specific passives.

LOL I agree on that.
Roegadyns would be a lot cooler if they weren't so humanish, and they were more like an orc or had something to define them.
I like hrotgar million times more than roegadyn, but I will not make one since I don't like neither their animations or their body type

I think roes look dumb and cartoonish. Their faces look like blobs but square, like I don't really know how to describe it, but they look like a cheap cartoon race or something. The bodies (male) look weird like cartoony hulk, but hulk looks better. If roes looked more human like Gosetsu I think more people would play them.

[zeylos]

I'm in favor of this sort of body type. I'm not against them being taller than depicted here, but this is def the general body shape my vote is for. Svelte, still masculine, but not bulky.

I quite like this body type but I'd give it a little bit more bulk.
I'd personally like them to look close to au ra

[zeylos]

I'm in favor of this sort of body type. I'm not against them being taller than depicted here, but this is def the general body shape my vote is for. Svelte, still masculine, but not bulky.

Oh btw that racial armor looks absolutely amazing.
I really hope they give male viera something as revealing as the female, considering that they can't literally cover all of their intimate parts with the 'armor' they have been given

[Wolfyboy]

Thanks.

I personally don't doubt that Hrothgar will do better than Roegadyn (and we will only know several months after 5.0 is out), but the claim being made by some here is that they would be more popular than mViera, which is entirely contingent on the build SE opts for and tweaks it makes to it, enough so for me to dismiss any blanket assertions to the effect about mHrothgar being more popular than mViera as nonsense, particularly when the argument is simply premised on demand based on other games. It all comes down to what design SE chooses to implement for them.

Ok, I understand what you're doing. You're currently breaking down and narrowing the numbers to better suit Hrothgar with the possible races in WoW where people might be interested in it. I assumed you were throwing that a monstrous male race in WoW in general was 30%, but with the numbers we know they're played around the same amount as attractive options. I dislike always giving a definite statement about popularity of a race because of the circumstances of each game in different. As you mentioned, WoW has a more stylized artstyle in comparison to FFXIV, however, despite this difference Draenei men are still one of the least popular options. Heck, if you've played, often Draenei are compared to fridges *cough cough* like Roe's proportions. It'll be easier to understand how Hrothgar look once the benchmark comes out and we can remove armour off them and play with the camera. It is almost 100% they share similar body structure as Roe, but like what they're doing with Viera, they're probably fixing up their proportions. I know when I looked at the Hrothgar video they made me feel a bit disappointed, however, once I seen images in better lightning they improve drastically to me.

The numbers on GW2 Charr fit pretty well with the 14-15% on the heavensward poll that would possibly play a beast race (If you combined mammal/lizard beastmen). For a race/gender option to be considered a success it requires around 7.1% with the soon 14 options that will be available. Assuming that females will be around 33% of 15% (We know Roe females have a huge number shortage compared to males) we can cut the male population to 10%. We can say 10% is the best case, that despite not getting the beastmen they desired (lanky/short/dragon/dog) they'll race change because it is only the beastial option and assuming people who would play the female version wouldn't play the male as a subsitute. In that case, male Hrothgar would be a successful race/gender combination. Of course, everything is simply a prediction until at least 3-6 months after the race comes out. Once a few months have past we would have a lot stronger ground to even predict male Viera (Au'ra/Miqo'te are like 50% of their female counterpart) and female Hrothgar.

[Hestzhyen]

I'm in favor of this sort of body type. I'm not against them being taller than depicted here, but this is def the general body shape my vote is for. Svelte, still masculine, but not bulky.

Absolutely what I would like to see too. Preferably an "otter mode" look instead of bulky. Definitely male but not hyper masculine. Even midlanders and cats are stuffing watermelons in their arms, so a race around the dimensions in that pic but truly lean would be most welcome.

[MrKimper]

So arguments have gone from.

Male viera isn't demanded, to Male viera would be less popular than Male hrothgar, to people who want Male viera are a vocal minority, to people who have liked this thread don't actually want Male viera and would not fantasia.

Huh?

[LittleChickenNugget]

To be fair, if you just read through the thread, minus the same 20 or so people, I would say about 70-80% of the people who have stopped by have said something along the lines of, "while I would personally not play them, I'm in favor of..."

Just because you like something doesn't mean you're gonna play it and that's the kind of feedback they're sifting through. Likes don't mean much if people aren't going to actually spend the money.

[Veis_Alveare]

So arguments have gone from.

Male viera isn't demanded, to Male viera would be less popular than Male hrothgar, to people who want Male viera are a vocal minority, to people who have liked this thread don't actually want Male viera and would not fantasia.

Huh?

I mean even with the 1.7k or so likes on the original post you have to admit that's a minority in terms of the actual playerbase as a whole. Most people just don't care about this.

I'm not saying that's a reason to not add them, as I've said as long as they look like adults it is what it is I guess, but to try to say that the people asking for them are anything but a vocal minority just isn't intellectually honest.

I'm also willing to say there are certainly people (like myself) who can on some level support the implementation of male Viera while having no interest in playing them ourselves.

If you give people another reasonably attractive anthropomorphic race of course people will use it but in terms of actual demand it doesn't seem like there is mass unsubbing going on because of this. A lot of people who want to play a man with animal ears already do so.

[Roda]

To be fair, if you just read through the thread, minus the same 20 or so people, I would say about 70-80% of the people who have stopped by have said something along the lines of, "while I would personally not play them, I'm in favor of..."

Just because you like something doesn't mean you're gonna play it and that's the kind of feedback they're sifting through. Likes don't mean much if people aren't going to actually spend the money.

Just gonna quote myself here

You're forgetting another reason to support this.
Those of us who want to play with those who would want to main one.
Just cause I main a greycatte and merely have an alt femroe does not mean I'm not absolutely delighted every time I see a femroe in the wild.
Other people getting customization options that I personally wouldn't use for my main is still a bonus to my gameplay experience as it breathes vibrancy into all the wonderfully unique characters I get to meet in the world! ♥

As it applies to male viera too.

Finishing the races improves my gameplay whether I play them or not.



Also threat of taking away funding should not be the only, or even first driving factor for the devs to listen to requests from their playerbase.
While anyone unsubbing or subbing over customization options is valid in their decision, having the relationship between developer and consumer being purely "provide this or we are going to make your job unsustainable" or "good dog have the treat that is my monthly sub" is hella toxic for everyone involved. We can make suggestions, and they should be able to be listened to and thoughtfully considered, without threats. And the devs should not be treated as vending machines by default.

[Lauront]

Ok, I understand what you're doing. You're currently breaking down and narrowing the numbers to better suit Hrothgar with the possible races in WoW where people might be interested in it.

Correct. I think I originally came by the figure by removing some picks which just don't fit at all with Hrothgar, like Forsaken and Goblins. They're arguably monstrous, but on reflection, they don't fit the same aesthetic at all as something like Hrothgar. So you'd need to segregate the race picks along more granular lines to get to something nearer to Hrothgar, which IMO would be Pandaren, Tauren and possibly Worgen.

The numbers on GW2 Charr fit pretty well with the 14-15% on the heavensward poll that would possibly play a beast race (If you combined mammal/lizard beastmen). For a race/gender option to be considered a success it requires around 7.1% with the soon 14 options that will be available. Assuming that females will be around 33% of 15% (We know Roe females have a huge number shortage compared to males) we can cut the male population to 10%. We can say 10% is the best case, that despite not getting the beastmen they desired (lanky/short/dragon/dog) they'll race change because it is only the beastial option and assuming people who would play the female version wouldn't play the male as a subsitute. In that case, male Hrothgar would be a successful race/gender combination. Of course, everything is simply a prediction until at least 3-6 months after the race comes out. Once a few months have past we would have a lot stronger ground to even predict male Viera (Au'ra/Miqo'te are like 50% of their female counterpart) and female Hrothgar.

I think that's a reasonable way to look at it, but with a caveat. Namely, that the race would have to realise greater returns than any money spent on developing and maintaining it. I'm not sure how the development costs for modelling end up being split or how easy it is to just adapt gear developed to fit Roes to fit Hrothgar but in practice you'd probably save some costs given similarities to that model. If anything, it'd make Roe a bit more cost-efficient, too, if I'm correct in my assumption that gear for them could be developed in parallel. So the threshold may end up actually being lower than 7.1% for the race/gender pick to be a financial success. It's difficult to track with precision how much income is attributable to adding a specific feature like a race, but with the right systems in place they could do it, no doubt fantasia income being the easiest thing to monitor, as well as players who begin a new account and pick Hrothgar, and stick to it - at least part of that sub revenue could be deemed to be due to Hrothgar.

Whilst we don't know where the target figure for SE is, my point here is that it could be a bit lower than 7.1% - this is also my argument when it comes to mViera's addition. It doesn't matter so much whether a majority of players desire them, as it does whether 1) it's enough demand to justify the expenditure and 2) alternative uses of the money would not be more lucrative over the game's lifespan. There's very few things that would fit under 2), but something like a graphics overhaul would fit the criterion, with its own pros and cons. This has to factor in the prospect of lost subs, fantasia sales etc. by not adding the option, but the resulting threshold for SE to add them would be a lot lower than a majority of the playerbase wanting them.

If you include ESO, I think they sent something out a few years ago that high elf was the most played race (official). However, one thing about ESO is people play races for their racial specific passives.

They freely publish their stats but the racial thing also applies to WoW to an extent, does it not? I’ve not played it in ages. Either way, it makes ESO admittedly less useful for comparison. Meanwhile, WoW has the issue that the figures provided are for total characters played, whereas as we know from FFXIV, actively played characters are more relevant – it is an alt-friendly game, too, whereas XIV is not.

If you include ESO, I think they sent something out a few years ago that high elf was the most played race (official). However, one thing about ESO is people play races for their racial specific passives.

I think roes look dumb and cartoonish. Their faces look like blobs but square, like I don't really know how to describe it, but they look like a cheap cartoon race or something. The bodies (male) look weird like cartoony hulk, but hulk looks better. If roes looked more human like Gosetsu I think more people would play them.

Yeah, and that is where WoW’s cartoonish aesthetics (as opposed to XIV’s more ‘realistic’ ones) might help a bit for such physiques.

To be fair, if you just read through the thread, minus the same 20 or so people, I would say about 70-80% of the people who have stopped by have said something along the lines of, "while I would personally not play them, I'm in favor of..."

Just because you like something doesn't mean you're gonna play it and that's the kind of feedback they're sifting through. Likes don't mean much if people aren't going to actually spend the money.

Yup, and then SE adds the race, they end up liking it enough to change and they do so. Whilst I don't doubt that most players probably don't care about the issue, once presented with SE's ideas for the finished product, that could well change. SE took that risk with Hrothgar, and they know what their existing players like when considering how to design Viera men. Part of being an entrepreneur is giving the consumer what they want before they know they do.

There are already polls on it and SE is more than capable of conducting its own surveys to gauge demand on the matter. As things stand, people who argue there isn't a demand for it are mostly just assuming their case.