Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[AngeliouxRein]

You know I don't think I've ever seen someone unironically say 'you don't pay my sub.'

I actually have run into two moments where someone actually did say this. The first time was a healer, who usually plays tank, was trying to tell the PLD how to tank multiple groups. Apparently, this was a classic case of a tank trying to show off to their GF or something and at some point he literally typed " YOU DONT PAY MY SUB!" followed by more colorful words. I guess he didn't appreciate being advised to be a better tank in front of her.

The second time was a bit more funny to me and it happened during a salt filled tank rage. It was the first boss for the lvl 60 raid , where you're on the ship and he can blow you off the edge. Well, the tanks were having a dual on who can hold aggro and they were already filling the chat with all sorts of salt from every corner of the world. But it got funny because apparently people couldn't grasp the concept to not run too far from the aoe markers that drop the ice pillar to stop us from falling. 3 wipes from that and the whole raid is raging (while the tanks were still raging about who is MT) and one of the healers who for some reason was being targeted the most (I think they were saying that they wasn't helping with healing but healer was trying to explain they can't heal if they are dead and then people would come back with "git good son comments") that the healer actually yells to them that they don't pay their sub followed by more colorful words. It was funny because the chat was silent and someone was like" Wow...people actually do say that?" and I think everyone started laughing behind their screens because we all got knocked off for the 4th time.

It was so terrible for both those moments but both of those times that people actually said I couldn't help but wonder if they were joking or being serious. Either way, it was all too funny for me

[TaleraRistain]

1) Phrasing matters
2) Calling someone out is not the same as offering advice
3) Phrasing really matters, my dudes
4) Other people you randomly meet don't have to listen to you
5) Seriously, I've seen people on here whine, bitch, moan, and complain and call it "coddling" but phrasing and presentation matter
6) PUG DF is a dice roll and if you can't roll with the punches, use premades where you can set expectations because...
7) Other people you randomly meet don't have to hold to your personal expectations

[van_arn]

1) Phrasing matters
2) Calling someone out is not the same as offering advice
3) Phrasing really matters, my dudes
4) Other people you randomly meet don't have to listen to you
5) Seriously, I've seen people on here whine, bitch, moan, and complain and call it "coddling" but phrasing and presentation matter
6) PUG DF is a dice roll and if you can't roll with the punches, use premades where you can set expectations because...
7) Other people you randomly meet don't have to hold to your personal expectations

8. If your party has the votes, the party has the power to kick.

[TaleraRistain]

8. If your party has the votes, you have the power to kick.

You can kick but you're still an asshole for doing it. Sometimes you get a good group. Sometimes you get a bad group. If you want to keep your sense of humor and have fun with PUGs, then you learn to roll with what you get. I personally feel I'm a much more effective white mage for seeing all the ways things can go pear-shaped and being adept at reacting than having everything go clockwork smooth. And I have a lot of fun in PUGs since I contribute to a positive environment where we can have a giggle if we derp, pick ourselves up, and try again.

[HyoMinPark]

1) Phrasing matters
2) Calling someone out is not the same as offering advice
3) Phrasing really matters, my dudes
4) Other people you randomly meet don't have to listen to you
5) Seriously, I've seen people on here whine, bitch, moan, and complain and call it "coddling" but phrasing and presentation matter
6) PUG DF is a dice roll and if you can't roll with the punches, use premades where you can set expectations because...
7) Other people you randomly meet don't have to hold to your personal expectations

Then don’t queue directly into EX primals in Duty Finder if you don’t want to listen to instructions.

[Adventica6]

Oh, it’s been more than a few. But I’m sorry that I don’t take kindly to being told to “—— off” after politely asking someone to do the mechanic that they keep dying to correctly. I don’t understand how me not wanting to deal with verbal abuse makes me a “problem” though.

Not wanting to contribute to the solution fundamentally makes you part of the problem ? I think you are using an extreme example as your only defense for why you won't stand up and would rather just sit down ^.~

Not everyone in the world is gutless, sometimes things are tough, sometimes a player may call you a name for criticizing them, that's life and you continue on your journey to do good.

Not every time where I offered advice was I treated kindly in return but giving up because someone was rude isn't in my blood, I don't quit when things get tough.

The community needs leaders, not sheep, little fluffy sheep who won't stand up for what's right because they are too afraid to offer advice to players for fear of a rude response.

When your ego is higher than the tallest mountains that you can't be bothered to help the community / struggling players then you really need to wonder.. {What are you doing?}...

[van_arn]

You can kick but you're still an asshole for doing it. Sometimes you get a good group. Sometimes you get a bad group. If you want to keep your sense of humor and have fun with PUGs, then you learn to roll with what you get. I personally feel I'm a much more effective white mage for seeing all the ways things can go pear-shaped and being adept at reacting than having everything go clockwork smooth. And I have a lot of fun in PUGs since I contribute to a positive environment where we can have a giggle if we derp, pick ourselves up, and try again.

We're not talking about people being assholes, we're talking about outliers. The group is who has to decide to kick, and if the outlier thinks the group was being an ass for that kick then they need some more time for self reflection.

Offer advice all you want, but if an outlier won't pay attention to that advice then they invite a kick from the party.

They *earn* a kick from the party.

[SerLuke]

Then don’t queue directly into EX primals in Duty Finder if you don’t want to listen to instructions.

Who is doing that? I’ve only seen and heard horror stories about not PF ex eikon runs.

[HyoMinPark]

Not wanting to contribute to the solution fundamentally makes you part of the problem ? I think you are using an extreme example as your only defense for why you won't stand up and would rather just sit down ^.~

Not everyone in the world is gutless, sometimes things are tough, sometimes a player may call you a name for criticizing them, that's life and you continue on your journey to do good.

Not every time where I offered advice was I treated kindly in return but giving up because someone was rude isn't in my blood, I don't quit when things get tough.

The community needs leaders, not sheep, little fluffy sheep who won't stand up for what's right because they are too afraid to offer advice to players for fear of a rude response.

When your ego is higher than the tallest mountains that you can't be bothered to help the community / struggling players then you really need to wonder.. {What are you doing?}...

I want to point out that you're preaching being kind to the community while your tone is nothing but condescending.

You may be fine with being cussed out, but some of us get tired of it.
Like I said: you do you, boo. And I'll do me.

Who is doing that? I’ve only seen and heard horror stories about not PF ex eikon runs.

Run Mentor Roulette sometime - it's fairly common to get Ramuh or Shiva EX in there.
The reason it pops is because some queued into it via DF. And I have spent entire lockouts trying to explain the mechanics to people only for them to just not listen.

[Zarabeth]

Between easy content, POTD and buying your way to 70 thru the mogstation, you are going to run into people who don't know their jobs even at lvl 70. It happens. If you can't handle this, make your own parties with people who are as good as you want them to be. So far, I have had few problems with nicely asking a tank to use their enmity + skills. The same with asking dps to use aoes. There are some who will be angry no matter how you ask them to play their job correctly. I've learned to just get through the run and move on.