Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Insertcoins]

Noone is right or wrong yet everyone is right and wrong. what I mean is no the tank doesn't get different treatment unless he or she does. If the other 3 want what the tank wants then kool, if not and 3 other people want something different then the tank is wrong. Numbers and all that, now the question to ask would be is it FAIR.

[Mikki]

The tank has the right to pull as they please and if the group dislikes it, they also have the right to kick them from the party. People will play how they want and there's nothing wrong with that.

No one really gets more "entitlement" than the other, it's just that it may be easier for the tank to do what they want vs the group and the wait for another tank may be ridiculous. Generally, majority rules but if the tank is uncomfortable with pulling that much then that's how it goes. Suck it up or kick them. It does little to argue who is in the "right" when it won't change the fact that people will do as they want.

This is why I have a tank friend who I play with, though. With upcoming trusts, it may be even better. Perhaps it'll be less of a hit to kick a bad or "incompatible" tank if you know that you can just turn to the trust system if the wait is too long.

[Nyxn607]

I would say I am an average to below average tank as I hate their play style in this game. When I do play a tank in a roulette at a higher level, I pull 2-3 groups of trash at a time and still manage to do alright. I probably take more damage than I should, but oh well.

I find it hard to believe a tank can't do large pulls, unless as others have mentioned that they are a brand new tank, or if they are under geared for the content. Outside of those two reasons, a tank should at the very least attempt to do large pulls if they are asked to do so by the party.

[Legion88]

My 2 cent to this subject.

The tank sets the pace depending on the capability of the party.

And there are just 2 steps to estimate the capability of the party:
1) the gear check
2) the first big pull

If 1) is more then enough the tank should big pull.

If the first big pull takes ages to die the DDs should step up and start learning how to do damage properly.
If the first big pull ends in a wipe the healer has to step up and learn his ropes.

All this needs a tank properly holding enmity and using cooldowns when necessery.

[ReiMakoto]

Imo in level 70 content there is no reason not to just pull everything, the outgoing damage from pulls is so low that even as an undergeared healer healing an undergeared tank, i was still casting more holy than healing in big pulls.

[Mistyregions]

The tank, holds aggro so you can dps. That by defaults puts them at pace setting. If you want to go ahead a pull without the tank you are entitled to. Dont complain when a tank doesnt pull off of you. Lastly if a tank is "under pulling" not only is it their game too, but if you feel so strongly about it, nothing is stopping you from picking up a tank class and setting the pace. No one is obligated to speed run, tank in a way they dont feel comfortable so you can just play DPS. That's called being selfish.

[Physic]

Yeah, I ain't buying that.

I main all 3 healers, and I've never had a tank make large pulls and had to say "Hey buddy, slow down, that's too much." except in lower level dungeons (like below level 30) where the group doesn't have much AOE damage going on.

Tanks should be able to easily handle large pulls at high levels if they know what they are doing.
In the level 70 content I expect the tank to have an idea (as long as they aren't new to the dungeon) on how much they can handle, and not slap me with constant 4 enemy pulls.

When you pull less it means everyones DPS is worth less.



This I can understand. Tanks that are new to dungeons/new to tanking obviously shouldn't charge ahead.

the tank is the one who knows the limits of thier own abilities. Just because some tanks are capable of large pulls does not mean all are. Also, just because the healer thinks he can heal it, doesnt mean he can.

ultimately i would say, its a combination of tank and healer that should decide the pace.


Regardless imo, its bad form to kick players for such a difference in opinion. No one is entitled to control another player legitimately attempting to play. Party find and premake your groups if you expect that high an amount of synergy as the minimum acceptable.

[Physic]

I edited my previous post as it didn't convey what I meant correctly.

As far as "tank set the pace", this is only relevant because of the game's mechanics. If you disregard the mechanics, then it comes back to the majority deciding what to do, regardless of who plays what job.
The tacit rule of the tank being the one who set the pace is definitly not engraved in stone. Most people go with it simply because it's a pain to speak up and fight others about what to do... So almost everyone just silently do whatever the tank wants to do. But sometimes, people do speak up, which is what happened in your situation, and therefore the majority won, as it should.

just because majority has the power to do something doesnt mean they were right to do so.

[Kazrah]

So here are my perspectives on it:

Playing a tank, unless I'm doing the dungeon for the first time, I'm always pulling two packs at a time. Seems like a happy medium where the healer can do some damage while maximizing aoe and likely not have any panic moments. If the healer says to pull more or less, I don't mind adjusting accordingly since while it is the tank that determines the pace, it's the healer that determines how valid that pace is or should be.

Playing a healer, I usually don't mind whatever pace the tank sets knowing the pulls from tanking them myself. That being said, having taught enough people how to tank in this game, I also know that some tanks are much less comfortable with their role than others, and have no problem if a tank feels the need to pull less since I can just make my own fun as a healer if things turn toward boredom.

Playing a DPS, I honestly couldn't care less what the pace is. I have patience, which is usually rewarded with morons whining because the tank isn't pulling more only for them to either leave or get killed. Preferably the latter since I can still usually do damage while pointing, laughing and bouncing on their corpse.

TL;DR: The tank sets the pace, the healer validates the pace, and the DPS need to enjoy the fact that they're still not in queue.

[Physic]

Overall I agree with you, the new part is where I slightly differ, I do feel that is a group is encouraging the player to step out their comfort zone, and to simply try but they refuse to try due to shyness or fear of failure, or simply because they are new to the game then I would question their actions. If that makes sense, I do feel even newer tanks should try and do larger pulls if the group is telling them to do so. Sure it may end in a wipe, but without trying they will never know.

its not really encouragement if it ends with a kick. Its basically a demand. While it might be a good idea, or a valid suggestion, its not a fair requirement. When they kick a player there are essentially reseting his progress, this should not be done lightly,