Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Greven]

Nobody are entitled and nobody should force a type of playstyle on others if there wasn't a previous agreement like in a party finder.

We don't know well the details but under the reasons for kicking there isn't anything even close to justify that.

They could've and should've disbanded by common agreement and queue the duty again covering the roles more involved in the game style they wanted.

[van_arn]

Nobody are entitled and nobody should force a type of playstyle on others if there wasn't a previous agreement like in a party finder.

We don't know well the details but under the reasons for kicking there isn't anything even close to justify that.

They could've and should've disbanded by common agreement and queue the duty again covering the roles more involved in the game style they wanted.

There is zero reason to disband when the problem can be solved by kicking a single person.

[Feidam]

There is zero reason to disband when the problem can be solved by kicking a single person.

So one person has a penalty forced on them because the run will take 5 mins longer? I’m not even a tank and this annoys me. Never mind it’s this type of behavior that helped facilitate their “new rules”. If the tank is steadily pulling and the dungeon is clearing kicking them is harassment. If it bothers a player that much to not large pull they could drop the duty. Oh! But wait! If they do that then they are penalized. So they penalize someone else instead. If I ever witnessed this I might report the others myself. If I ask a tank to large pull and they refuse in a non douchebag manner then I can stay or I can leave. If they want to be toxic then they can go.

[Hash_Browns]

So one person has a penalty forced on them because the run will take 5 mins longer? I’m not even a tank and this annoys me. Never mind it’s this type of behavior that helped facilitate their “new rules”. If the tank is steadily pulling and the dungeon is clearing kicking them is harassment. If it bothers a player that much to not large pull they could drop the duty. Oh! But wait! If they do that then they are penalized. So they penalize someone else instead. If I ever witnessed this I might report the others myself. If I ask a tank to large pull and they refuse in a non douchebag manner then I can stay or I can leave. If they want to be toxic then they can go.

Kicking a tank who refuses to play effectively isn't harassment, nor do they get penalized.
If you want the reward from the dungeon, you gotta be willing to work for it.

[Feidam]

Kicking a tank who refuses to play effectively isn't harassment, nor do they get penalized.
If you want the reward from the dungeon, you gotta be willing to work for it.

Clearing the dungeon is effective. Be it small or large pulls. Not everyone is efficient.

[van_arn]

So one person has a penalty forced on them because the run will take 5 mins longer? I’m not even a tank and this annoys me. Never mind it’s this type of behavior that helped facilitate their “new rules”. If the tank is steadily pulling and the dungeon is clearing kicking them is harassment. If it bothers a player that much to not large pull they could drop the duty. Oh! But wait! If they do that then they are penalized. So they penalize someone else instead. If I ever witnessed this I might report the others myself. If I ask a tank to large pull and they refuse in a non douchebag manner then I can stay or I can leave. If they want to be toxic then they can go.

You seem to enjoy misuse of "penalty." It's not a penalty to kick an obstinate tank; it is a penalty for the party to keep them around.

Thankfully the will of the group will always win out; it doesn't matter what bleeding heart policies Square puts in place or what they are percieved to implement. If the group decides they want to replace someone, that person will be replaced.

Square could go as far as to disable kicking entirely and you'd just see more people randomly going afk or offline to dodge and cause runs to collapse. You can't force people to want to play with you, and Square can't make that happen either.

[Greven]

There is zero reason to disband when the problem can be solved by kicking a single person.

As I said we don't know the details, maybe the tank was being just selfish and lazy? Then yeah kick is the better option. But maybe the other 2-3 were forcing that person to do something he/she were not ready or willing to due for valid reasons, them being a group doesn't justify being bullies and the rules on how to use "kick" are there exactly to prevent this.

I agree disband sounds like too much but in doubt better behave with respect for the others. But if you want to look at it from a practical point of view: the time to get another player could be the time to do slower pulls. And again even if it was 1 minute slower.. who really cares? It's nothing.

Just to clarify, cause I've already seen people going personal: I'm main tank and I like to greet my party and pull and sprint until I hit wall. If I notice some something from a leafy to a low gear I sometime ask if it's okay to do big/fast pulls.

[SaitoHikari]

I mean, I can see why tanks want to pull as little as possible with the way that most DPS play in this game. People heap tons of responsibility onto the tank while putting very little responsibility towards the majority of the community, the DPS. That's why I, as a savage raider that's close to clearing UwU, don't really care which way tanks lean. A mass pulling tank AND their healer are both going to have very a bad time if they happen to be paired with DPS that don't AoE at all, and I consider that to be the biggest reason why there's such a major tank shortage in this game. Even I have no desire to tank at all after witnessing firsthand what happens nearly every time I actually did tank, so I opted to main Bard not only because I enjoy it, but because I can help make fights go a lot more smoothly than if I played as any other role.

That said, as a Bard, I do prefer if tanks mass pull, but that's because I have a responsibility to be prepared for them and nuke giant packs into the ground while simultaneously helping the tank and healer mitigate damage taken with physical Troubadour/Palisade/Nature's Minne. Due to the nature of how our AoE is most effective in a 30 second window out of 80 seconds, Bard AoE encourages mass pulling for maximum effectiveness. Thing is, the way most Bards play, most tanks probably don't even realize this about them at all (I've had a few tanks get snippy at me about me mass dotting enemies during the pull, but I actually HAVE to if I want mass rain of death resets once the tank reaches the end destination and I switch into Mage's Ballad). Even so, mass or small pulling doesn't make that much of a difference to me in the end (since it usually means I'll be able to nuke a small pack into the ground with Wanderer's Minuet without having to worry about not having it ready for an opener at a boss instead), but it'd probably bother other classes in ways that I'm not particularly aware of.

Basically, what I'm saying is, maybe tanks and healers would be more comfortable going for faster/riskier strategies if they could actually trust their DPS to step up their game too. And the way this community reacts violently to any suggestion to push themselves to become better, the situation really won't ever change.

[Greven]

I don't agree with why they were kicked, but the group had a right to do so. A "difference in playstyles" is a legitimate reason and that's exactly what it was. I probably wouldn't have initiated the kick myself or even clicked yes though because it seems rather petty. Now if they were pulling slow and not tanking what they were pulling? I wouldn't have hesitated and would have had no regrets. But if someone is doing their job at least mostly correctly then I just suck it up and think "well, this is what I signed up for" because the DF is a mixed bag.

The only legitimate reasons to vote dismiss are:
- AFK;
- Offline;
- Harassment;
- Cheating.

[Vahlnir]

The only legitimate reasons to vote dismiss are:
- AFK;
- Offline;
- Harassment;
- Cheating.

And a difference in playstyles. This was stated back in ARR when the kick was first implemented. They just don't police much it since it generally sorts itself out unless there was an actual abuse of the system which they do take pretty seriously. Impeding the progress of a group could be considered harassment though depending on what was said and done.