Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[DrWho2010]

The Smith teaches novice stuff but by the time you reach 70 the game just expects you to have read your tooltips and i dunno managed to integrate yourself into the community at large and have some friends at least that you can talk to. I mean it is an MMO after all, you should be all talking with your fellow players and friends and learning from each other. but solo players wanna solo and there's so many people that are like I have no friends. *shrug*

[Ilan]

The Smith teaches novice stuff but by the time you reach 70 the game just expects you to have read your tooltips and i dunno managed to integrate yourself into the community at large and have some friends at least that you can talk to. I mean it is an MMO after all, you should be all talking with your fellow players and friends and learning from each other. but solo players wanna solo and there's so many people that are like I have no friends. *shrug*

Which is still no excuse because there are guides for almost everything in the game.

[Kalise]

Which is still no excuse because there are guides for almost everything in the game.

There's an issue with something like this though.

It requires using 3rd party sites in order to actually utilize.

Many players don't use 3rd party sites to play games, nor should they be expected to.

The game itself should provide the basic and intermediate levels of knowledge needed.

It should teach people about how to use their rotations, how much benefit each stat gives, what the breakpoints of stats are, how much DPS someone is doing (Also, how much effective HPS and overhealing someone is doing too)

But alas, this is not the case in FFXIV. Where, even stats are only listed as arbitrary "Ratings" that need to be tested (Or looked up on a 3rd party site made by someone who's already tested them) to see how much Crit gives 1% crit chance.

Where even certain parts of the game (Notably, Eureka) are heavily dependent on the use of 3rd party sites to function properly (To check NM cooldowns as well as weather timings)

It's this kind of hands off approach that leads to many people not knowing that they're underperforming because the game tells them absolutely nothing.

In fact, the only way they'd be able to tell they're underperforming is if they used a 3rd party program to parse their damage and then compared themselves to others on a 3rd party site and then saw the discrepancy.

Which, when you think about it... Is kind of crazy.

[VirusOnline]

There's an issue with something like this though.

It requires using 3rd party sites in order to actually utilize.

Many players don't use 3rd party sites to play games, nor should they be expected to.

The game itself should provide the basic and intermediate levels of knowledge needed.

It should teach people about how to use their rotations, how much benefit each stat gives, what the breakpoints of stats are, how much DPS someone is doing (Also, how much effective HPS and overhealing someone is doing too)

But alas, this is not the case in FFXIV. Where, even stats are only listed as arbitrary "Ratings" that need to be tested (Or looked up on a 3rd party site made by someone who's already tested them) to see how much Crit gives 1% crit chance.

Where even certain parts of the game (Notably, Eureka) are heavily dependent on the use of 3rd party sites to function properly (To check NM cooldowns as well as weather timings)

It's this kind of hands off approach that leads to many people not knowing that they're underperforming because the game tells them absolutely nothing.

In fact, the only way they'd be able to tell they're underperforming is if they used a 3rd party program to parse their damage and then compared themselves to others on a 3rd party site and then saw the discrepancy.

Which, when you think about it... Is kind of crazy.

If a person wants to better themselves, then research should be expected whether in game or outside of the game. Entire communites are formed outside of the game (website/discord servers) where people can converse and learn how to better improve themselves. It's like going to college and saying I shouldn't be expected to research for myself. School does not tell you everything you need to know and thus you must look to the community outside to further your knowledge.

Guides are often reproduced from the community itself and players who are willing to take the time to benchmark and share its information to the playerbase willingly. When I first reach 70 on any class my goal is to figure out how to optimize myself regardless if I know I am producing good dps or not. I believe a player should at least have a desire or willingness to be able to go outside of the game in a simple webpage and research for themselves if they want to become better.

[Kalise]

If a person wants to better themselves, then research should be expected whether in game or outside of the game. It's like going to college and saying I shouldn't be expected to research for myself. School does not tell you everything you need to know and thus you must look to the community outside to further your knowledge.

Guides are often reproduced from the community itself and players who are willing to take the time to benchmark and share its information to the playerbase willingly.

There's a level of "Betterment" to be talked about.

For upper echelon gameplay, yes, other sites would be used to scrutinize every little detail to eke out every bit of performance, and to do things like discuss with others about stat priorities.

However, the fundamentals of the game should be taught within the game.

Especially when guides, are all aimed at max level players whom are already somewhat familiar with how to play.

The analogy is not going to college and not studying. This is going to primary/secondary (First/middle/high) school and the teachers being like "Lol, just google it"

In this analogy, the game should be school. Where you're taught everything from your abc's to algebra. This would be everything you need to know to be able to play your class and know somewhat how gearing works and stuff like materia functions (How gear has maximum values for stats, that materia can be removed from gear etc)

College, would be when someone is moving into Savage/Ultimate content, where they will need to proactively seek out their own information. Where much of their learning happens outside of the classroom (Game). This would be the level of content where people should be needing to look up optimization guides and obsess over melding towards breakpoints over their stat priorities.

For most people, they will never step foot into Savage/Ultimate content. Thus, their need to go trawling through parsers and websites would not exist. Which, shouldn't be an issue since outside of this level of content, it shouldn't be required to seek out guidance on basic fundamentals of the game like "What do my stats even do?"

This is part of the issue that arises, the players whom don't perform well in game, are those same people that don't bother to go looking up guides, because well... They shouldn't have to, they're only playing casually. Not everyone is striving to be the top 1% and that's okay.

What's not okay is giving players zero information under the assumption that everyone will be striving to be the top 1% and therefore will be undergoing their own research into performance (Also, using 3rd party software to parse because the game doesn't actually let you track your own performance naturally, not even on dummies in Stone, Sky & Sea)

[VirusOnline]

For most people, they will never step foot into Savage/Ultimate content. Thus, their need to go trawling through parsers and websites would not exist. Which, shouldn't be an issue since outside of this level of content, it shouldn't be required to seek out guidance on basic fundamentals of the game like "What do my stats even do?"

This is part of the issue that arises, the players whom don't perform well in game, are those same people that don't bother to go looking up guides, because well... They shouldn't have to, they're only playing casually. Not everyone is striving to be the top 1% and that's okay.

What's not okay is giving players zero information under the assumption that everyone will be striving to be the top 1% and therefore will be undergoing their own research into performance (Also, using 3rd party software to parse because the game doesn't actually let you track your own performance naturally, not even on dummies in Stone, Sky & Sea)

The guides don't point to only the '1%s'/hardcores. The guides aren't about striving to the top - it's about guiding a player who wishes to learn more about their class learn more and if they want to the guide supplies even more copious knowledge. The guides and discords supply basic knowledge of rotations as well. You take that knowledge and you can apply it to whatever level of play you want.

The game itself doesn't believe everyone will be striving towards the top. SE knows this. There exists tooltips upon each ability and every ability - that's not zero information. I was casual before I started raiding and I soley relied on those tooltips in order to create a basic rotation for myself without researching outside of the game. And as you said that's ok. But whether they should or shouldn't have to look up a guide is completely subjective. The tooltips are there to help people formulate their own rotations as a casual.

[Kalise]

The guides don't point to only the '1%s'/hardcores. The guides aren't about striving to the top - it's about guiding a player who wishes to learn more about their class learn more and if they want to the guide supplies even more copious knowledge. The guides and discords supply basic knowledge of rotations as well. You take that knowledge and you can apply it to whatever level of play you want.

The game itself doesn't believe everyone will be striving towards the top. SE knows this. There exists tooltips upon each ability and every ability - that's not zero information. I was casual before I started raiding and I soley relied on those tooltips in order to create a basic rotation for myself without researching outside of the game. And as you said that's ok. But whether they should or shouldn't have to look up a guide is completely subjective. The tooltips are there to help people formulate their own rotations as a casual.

Most guides (In fact, all guides I've come across) are entirely focused on end-game raiding.

The "Basic knowledge of rotations" I often actually had to look up what skills they were even talking about because they wouldn't even mention the actual name of the skill (Either using an abbreviation or just the ability icon) as well as they often provide multiple different rotations for different team compositions or buffs that are active.

Which aren't exactly the most simple thing if you're brand new and suddenly are being told 3+ different rotations.

As far as tooltips go?

They aren't going to tell you anything worthwhile.

Tooltips are why we get Ice Mages.

Tooltips are why we get DRK's running around without Darkside active.

(Since they read "Can't regenerate MP" on DS/AF and think it's a bad thing)

Tooltips lead a number of BLM's to try spamming Flare at level 50 when they unlock it (Since the tooltip says it does more damage than Fire I or Fire III, so I should just spam it right?)

Even with tooltips, I've had to personally do the math about many jobs rotations, factoring in cast time, potency, re-use, ability to weave, damage per resource etc. None of this was presented in the actual tooltip. Nowhere in the tooltip does it say "Upheaval is better damage per Beast Gauge than Fell Cleave as long as you're above 60% health"

This is no information.

This is like that time I had to do a physics exam and literally hadn't been taught anything by my teacher at that point. I was handed a sheet with a bunch of formulae on but it didn't help because I didn't have the fundamental understanding of how and when to use them.

[Ilan]

There's an issue with something like this though.

It requires using 3rd party sites in order to actually utilize.

Many players don't use 3rd party sites to play games, nor should they be expected to.

The game itself should provide the basic and intermediate levels of knowledge needed.

It should teach people about how to use their rotations, how much benefit each stat gives, what the breakpoints of stats are, how much DPS someone is doing (Also, how much effective HPS and overhealing someone is doing too)

But alas, this is not the case in FFXIV. Where, even stats are only listed as arbitrary "Ratings" that need to be tested (Or looked up on a 3rd party site made by someone who's already tested them) to see how much Crit gives 1% crit chance.

Where even certain parts of the game (Notably, Eureka) are heavily dependent on the use of 3rd party sites to function properly (To check NM cooldowns as well as weather timings)

It's this kind of hands off approach that leads to many people not knowing that they're underperforming because the game tells them absolutely nothing.

In fact, the only way they'd be able to tell they're underperforming is if they used a 3rd party program to parse their damage and then compared themselves to others on a 3rd party site and then saw the discrepancy.

Which, when you think about it... Is kind of crazy.

There is no issue with informing yourself about the game you are playing on 3rd party sides because 3rd party sides are always used in mmo's for guides like certain fights and gathering/crafting. Sure Se could integrate a little boss infor for every dungeon like there is in WoW but that still wouldn't cover everything and would be less help than the guides that other players made to help people.

The only thing someone should be expected to look up is savage raids and ex primals so they don't screw over their party. Obviously not when something is new because everyone has to learn it then.

Sure the game could also teach people their rotations but without a tool that shows why this rotation is usefull it won't be of much use.

You might think its crazy that you have to rely on third party tools and sides for games but thats how it is with every single mmo that i've ever played and that was a lot, the only ones that had some little helpers were WoW with a little overview what the bosses do and BnS with the build in damagemeter for bosses. I think there is nothing crazy about it that players are expected to inform themselfs about a game, but i would say that there are some things that SE could change to teach people how to play their role and give people a tool that shows them their damage.