Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[Gula]

Every community has it's bad players, that is a given. However, in FF14, the list of bad players seem to be significantly larger than any other MMO I have ever played, and the way SE coddles them and prevents anyone from criticizing them certainly doesn't help.

I honestly find that hard to believe. I've been through a lot of mmos from my early teens. I think you either have a mean streak of bad luck, or have not seen true MMO horror yet. I'm betting on the former.

[Kalise]

The main problem is that the game itself doesn't actually do anything to teach people. Not even simple basics.

Yes, there's the Hall of the Novice, but that's optional. It's sat over in the corner just whimpering and occasionally whispering "Umm... Excuse me but I don't think you're doing that quite correctly..."

Meanwhile the rest of the game just lets you chug along without a care in the world.

Leveling roulettes? Pfft, who cares about gear requirements? Nonono sign right up to Bardam's Mettle with level 46 gear! (I actually had a healer for a run who was using level 46 gear and I quote "Can't afford to buy something new")

MSQ? Literally everything you fight is lower difficulty than actually equivalent level overworld mobs. Even more so when multiple enemies are spawned and they then all have like 2hp because gosh, wouldn't it be awful if someone had to actually try to beat the enemies?

Job quests? Nah, lets not teach anyone how to utilize their job or their new skills, lets just send people on a sightseeing tour! Bet you can't guess what Curious Gorge has been up to since you last saw him! (Hint: It's doing nothing. Every single time.)

As a result, people are freely able and often encouraged to level through the game without actually bothering to learn a single facet of how to play. Then once they get to max level, get all their job quests done and start heading into gearing up... Well the game just hands out Tome gear like candy on Halloween, letting these people enter max level and expert duties again, without the slightest clue of what the heck they're actually doing.

I sincerely hope that with the Trusts system coming in ShB, it allows SE to be more strict with things. Since, if everyone can progress through the MSQ with their trusts while solo, then there's no reason to coddle players whom are actually going to be playing with others. Allowing them to do things like put minimum item level restrictions on leveling duties. Allowing them to gate access to more demanding content behind basic tests of ability (For example, you can't do EX Roulette until you've completed this solo duty that is somewhat challenging and requires some sort of knowledge on how your role actually functions)

I doubt it though, more than likely they'll just go the standard route for MMO's, which is to dumb everything down so that no-one can fail... Even Billy No-Brain who's drooling on his keyboard will be pumping out top 1% DPS and queuing up for Ultimate content through DF with a bunch of other people who's skill level is equivalent to smashing their face into their keyboard and hoping something productive happens...

[Ilan]

I see this often, and personally I find this whole thing rather disgusting and obnoxious.

Having standards for players seems to a crime among this community and you will only be met with insults and overall terrible and toxic behaviour.

For example, it's rather standard to expect a level 70 tank player to understand Enmity and how it works. Yet I meet an insane amount of level 70 tank only players that do not understand the basics of enmity and how to hold aggro.

Another example is with the AoE mechanics aka the orange markers. I encounter many people that stand in them at levels 50+ because they don't realize that orange marker = bad.

It's completely mind boggling that this is considered acceptable by a large part of the community.

Those same people, if you criticize their actions because they don't understand basic game mechanics at pretty high levels if not max level itself, respond with insults, toxicity, "you don't pay my sub", "i'm new so i'm entitled to wiping raids because im learning", "i play how i want to", "you don't control my account" and so on.

And if you don't say anything to them, you get called a toxic elitist for choosing not to help them.

In the vast majority of other MMOs, if you are a bad player, you will be called a bad player, people will try to help, you are given the opportunity to improve and stop being a bad player.

In FF14, if you are a bad player, you cannot be criticized because the other person can report you for harassment and you'll probably get a warning under the new rules they implemented, and if you don't help them you get called a toxic elitist anyway.

Why is it such a crime to have actual STANDARDS in this game? No one is asking anyone to be the top 1%, or outright the top player in the world, however I would say it should be a very normal and common thing to expect high level players to understand at least the BASICS of combat and their class. Currently this fact is treated by the community like you just committed a war crime.

Why are standards a crime? Why do people think it's acceptable to waste everyone's time by wiping a raid repeatedly and when offered advice they respond with toxicity? This is a pretty common thing, and i find it mind boggling.

Welcome to final fantasy, enjoy.

[Malzian]

Is because we've created a society where everyone believes that they can have whatever they desire whenever they desire it and if you deny them that it must not be for any rational reason but because you're discriminating against them personally somehow. The problem is that, in quite a few cases not only is discrimination a good thing, it's an important thing. (Calm ye SJWs, let me expand on that.)

Most often when you hear the term "discrimination" people jump to specific things like gender, racial or age discrimination, but those aren't the only forms it takes. For instance, when hiring someone for a job you might need to be discriminating when it comes to the requirements of said job:

"I see you want to be a rocket engineer, but you didn't graduate High School?"
"That's correct."
"I'm afraid you need a college degree in aeronautics for this position."
"So you're not going to give me the job?"
"Well... no..."
"It's because I'm <insert protected attribute here>, isn't it?"

Each of us is discriminatory every day... We pick the food we want to eat, throw away things that don't fit our tastes, don't buy the thing that seems too expensive. And yet, in this day and age where everyone gets a trophy... where everyone feels they're entitled to anything they want... discriminating against the people you want around you, that you want to date, that you want to employ based upon your own personal qualifications... You're the one in the wrong because you're denying someone else something THEY want. How dare thee?

However, there is a point you be made in how you approach that type of discrimination. If you are rude or mean about it, then you're at fault for that and have some responsibility for what you did. If you're nice about it and they snark back at you so you lash out, well... you're still responsible for lashing out back at them. As difficult as it is... as annoying and frustrating as it may be to deal with that person who refuses to learn or refuses to be civil... the best thing you can do is calmly removed yourself from the situation (even if it means eating a 30 minutes lockout penalty), blacklist the person... and move on.

TL;DR: You're allowed to have standards. You're allowed to discriminate in who you play with. You are NOT allowed to be abusive about it. Just take your hat and go.

[Jimmymagic]

Ok look I get the idea behind OP here and I agree with some, however, some of the "help" with class/job is not always accurate information. There are plenty of Mentor status players who have played a number of years or even since BETA who don't play there roles correctly but if a noob were to suggest any differences in play style they get the elitist treatment.

When I started playing last year, I was very noob and asked a lot questions on DF and dung. Most of the players I encountered either knew the mechanic of dung but didn't execute rotations well or vice versa. I got texted a lot for my mistakes which I think was valid, however after playing consistently now everyday. I am starting to see that things they were telling me to do was not correct at all or could be done a different way.

My point do you actually know how to play your job or just assuming everyone else cant? See, I love this game but it will never be perfect because of the player base and design.

Bottom line you all continue to play the game, which means you pay a sub. If you want SE to do anything about this you have to stop playing for them to take notice hence 1.0 to ARR.

Even if SE implements penalties or regulates bad play, there will always be someone unhappy with the gameplay and design. I don't see where it could be possible to appease everyone.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

snip

While I have noticed more recently that players are using the "you don't pay for my sub" excuse or some variation when offered help and criticism, it still feels like more of a severe minority compared to the vast number of players. I normally don't push for a confrontation unless it's a big mechanic for a fight or that they're missing something that should be common sense for their level. Such as:

• Using Caster/ranged dps LB on a normal pull in a dungeon right before a boss
• using lv1 LB at the start of a boss fight
• Not holding aoe aggro when as a tank
• Spamming only Cure 2, Benefic, or Physick at lv40+
• Not having a job stone when queuing for Brayflox's Longstop or any duty after that

At the moment, you have to realize that a good chunk of veteran players are either taking a break in the game or taking this period of time between the last patch and june 28th to focus only on things like EX primals or Alphascape (savage). This means that there's a higher percentage of new/level-skipped characters trying to get through the MSQ and prepare for Shadowbringers.

snip

You really shouldn't need too much advice from others about a dps rotation prior to lv70 since in a lot of jobs they change drastically to the point where something that's integral to play at lv70 won't be as important at 56. This is mainly due to the restructuring of several jobs when Stormblood came out and they really started to focus on only balancing job actions and rotations at max level.

[Kawada]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with holding with standards of play per se. One of the problems, as I see it, is in ‘expectations’.

For example, I know how the members of my FC play and we each have a similar level of expectation when we group up to take something on. Should you join our FC we expect you to play to our standards. But if you can’t then just show us you are trying to work harder and we’ll work harder to help you; after all it’s a game foremost and we want you to enjoy the time you spend with us.

But when I join a PUG I try to change my expectations because I know the standard of play is going to be variable; I may even be the worst player in the group, have an off day, get stuck in tunnel vision, and not even reach my own standard of play. When PUG people’s expectations are dashed I would hazard it’s that which causes the most raging in those 'fed-up' or easily enraged?

Can players meet standards? Sure, but whose standards might those be? How do you enforce them? Are they realistic? Minimalistic or all-encompassing? Set to the lowest common denominator (and try to define that one!) or the highest possible level of play?

Interesting.

[Skolopendrokot]

I think the problem is that the game doesn't teach its players properly. Smith's tutorial isn't required and people often forget to complete it. The duties from MSQ are easy and you don't have to remember about your passive skills or rotations to finish them. It's the same with the first dungeons. To be honest, I didn't know how to play a tank properly until I joined FC and found some people who were kind enough to teach me. Of course, I believe there are players who just don't want to learn, but it's not like all the people with higher level play bad on a purpose. They sometimes just think that it's okay to clear dungeons with weaker armor because they were able to do duties with it. I suppose that many of them are thankful for any advice they can get, but you have to talk to them in a polite manner. Nobody likes to be criticized, especially if they don't know what exactly they do wrong.

[ElazulHP]

Those same people, if you criticize their actions because they don't understand basic game mechanics at pretty high levels if not max level itself, respond with insults, toxicity, "you don't pay my sub", "i'm new so i'm entitled to wiping raids because im learning", "i play how i want to", "you don't control my account" and so on.

Learning shouldn't be criticized if they're actually attempting to learn. Everyone was new once and should be afforded the opportunity to learn the content. I dare you to find someone that was flawless on their first couple of runs at something. Now if they're not even trying to learn that is something else entirely.

[Angelov-Mercy]

A community is made up of a lot of different people with different attitudes. Some are helpful, some are toxic. Overall, this community is excellent; very helpful and encouraging.

I think there is good in everyone, we just have to find a way to bring it out.

But we can't do so until people stop living by their emotions, those are an unstable wind that can be gentile sometimes, but powerfully destructive in others. When there is no consequence for one's actions, there is no consideration for them ether. It's how one handles their emotions that really tells who or what you are dealing with....one's words, be they bitter or sweet, tells the substance of one's heart.



Hopefully there are mature and friendly guilds out there, to enhance the game's social aspect for me...until then, I will be running pug dutys and riding my bike solo. B)