Why Does A Fierce Race Of Female Warriors...

[Nestama]

If all of the other female race's starter gear is fine, what's wrong with having one race with starter gear like this? I personally like their racial gear. It's just like Fran's.

I think it's more that the Viera starter gear looks like something you'd expect from the hempen sets.

[Senn]

I think it's more that the Viera starter gear looks like something you'd expect from the hempen sets.

Oh. I wouldn't really mind it if they changed it to a hempen set, either. Whether it's starter gear or hempen set, the overall design doesn't bother me. Can always wear different gear anyway.

[Acesfool]

The thing that has me the most excited to play a Viera is trying to get that 'rabbit like nose' Fran has. So far I've seen it in most of the concept art so I'm still assuming it will be on the character choices. If it is, My Elezen is extremely likely to find a Moogle has a fantasia potion for her.

My second 'long bet' is to hope the glamour choices look better.

What will Hempen Camise look like? - that alone can make or break a character choice.
What will 'Brand New Boots' and 'Brand New Gloves' look like. Currently this is a trash item unless you have an Aura female, and then it's the 'Hempen Camise' of shoes...
- and so on.

Also desperately hoping they have a more silly 'panic' emote like a Miqote or Aura and not the 'I'm too dignified for that emote' version the Elezen have. Because I begin every dungeon on my cat and lizard characters with a healthy panic emote for the laughs.

I plan to fantasia to a female character after the expac comes out. I'm heavily leaning toward aura for now but will give viera a chance before making a final decision.

[Nihility]

I think it's more that the Viera starter gear looks like something you'd expect from the hempen sets.

I think it's more they wanted to give a fran set in a way that doesn't involve viera getting an extra set over other races or a mogstation exclusive.


With the way small groups of people try to hold the game hostage over every little thing may likely just push the game developers to just start ignoring user feedback. It's extremely hostile and rude and should evoke a negative response despite how often they try to appease fan demands to disasterous results

[Makeda]

Totally a strawman argument, Makeda.

What I'm complaining about is that the gear is barely there. The viera are practically nude. They seem more like the outfits you'd see adult entertainers wear in a strip club.

((The viera's buttcheeks are already a meme. Look it up.))

Totally a strawman argument, Makeda. If you noticed, I did not complain about the starting outfits of other races. To me, they are fine. I appreciate people like their sexy characters.

What I'm complaining about is the viera are practically nude. They are wearing lingerie and I feel that goes too far.

((The viera's buttcheeks are already a meme. Look it up.))

I didn't sign up to FFXIV to get characters dressed like something out of Forsaken World or Tera.

I'm not misogynistic in the least. Perhaps i should have used the term, Victoria's Secret models.

If you think that line of thought is misogynistic then there is nothing more than I can say because I believe from the deepest place in my heart you are wrong.

There are two ways this whole thing could have been approached.

Is the issue with the representation of female characters, or more specifically Viera starting outfits, about objectification or S-shaming (wherein S refers to a 4-letter term).

With the term 'strippers' and many of the other terms such as those above... you went with 'S-shaming' - which is a classic misogynistic approach.

There is an argument to be made about objectification.

But it would be made in a very different manner. And even if one made it I would come back with comparing representation in FFXIV against those in other related media and find that FFXIV is a lot better on this score - when it does present an outfit that is very sensuous, it often looks a lot less exaggerated, and the characters themselves are also some of the least exaggerated in any related media.

[Jaywalker]

I struggle to express myself in a way that doesn't come off as trying to tell others what they should/n't be doing and sometimes I succeed and others, like this thread, not so much. That's kind of one of the reasons I participate in discussions like this, to try and better my ability to debate and express my thoughts.

No worries! Honestly if you find a spot online where you can practice this kind of discussion calmly with folks it's worth doing! Can't do it everywhere but since FFXIV is good for this kind of thing better to run with it. For what it's worth, I figured it would be worth chatting with you because I totally get where you're coming from and you seem well-intended with this stuff. Since I'm coming from a spot where censorship is a major issue I figure I might be able to offer some perspective and maybe help reassure you on a few points. The big thing with FFXIV I think is that they need to be aware there is some nonsense going on in business/consumer relationships in the West rn (especially on creative properties) and not fall into the same trap. That's part of why I talk about the subject some in forums.

For what it's worth though, I'm reasonably sure that Japanese media is becoming increasingly aware of this issue.

Just because this is a business doesn't mean the devs can't have a passion for the world they've created.

Of course! I'm a creator too with all of this, the passion for the work and having a clear vision is crucial. I figure having a measure of passion should be a given. It's just also important to remember that you're engaging with other people, and sometimes to be the best storyteller you have to be willing to "cut up your baby" so to speak haha. There's a certain measure of fun that comes from limits and taking on a challenge as well as you can. It's all still a job with responsibilities and remembering the consumer base, but if you have the temperament for it it's a fun job.

I do think it would be unfair to say continued commitment to FFXIV after 1.0 was only motivated by passion though. I suspect a big part of it was they had an idea of how to fix things and they had already committed a lot of resources. Writing it off as a total loss at that point would have been a bigger loss because as an MMO it's not like you can continue collecting sales to a lesser degree years after the fact. If there's no maintenance of the community you can't really play. I'm sure passion played a part, but I think practicality tied in too.

I'll use the Viera/Hrothgar situation as an example again since it's the most recent controversy: I feel that if the devs had an in-world related reason as to why those races only have one gender and they felt that fan requests for the other genders went against that reason and would disrupt future plans then they should be able to reject the request without facing severe backlash.

At this point I take that as giving themselves an out if there wasn't sufficient demand for the other genders to justify the effort tbh. Kind of testing the waters. Frankly, it's a little bit of a gamble because people rarely (if ever) do legitimately monstrous looking female characters and fanservice-y male characters to the degree that's being proposed. Sometimes it is ABSOLUTELY worth taking those gambles, it opens the door to new possibility and innovation and can really invigorate the customer base. But especially when a lot of time, money, and effort is attached that can also be a risk if it fails.

I do think it would be a shame for people to declare ruined forever and leave over this. However, I also think it would be a huge shame for SE to miss the opportunity both creatively and as a business. When there is huge audience demand like this (not talking loud non-fans just looking for power, I mean actual fans who spend money and engage with the story) it's actually a good opportunity signal and shows people are invested. There's also precedent for doing a genderlock then unlocking later, and for there being more males and females for various races that are then shown in practice. I don't wish anything bad whatsoever on the devs if they opt out of the option, but I don't think they should do that and I don't think it needs to cause any problems if they decide to go with it at their own pace.

That's where we as fans need to understand that we shouldn't expect to get everything we want even though we pay a subscription. We're paying to participate in the story the developers are telling, not paying to control it.

Idk, I think this is a complicated issue. I think it's true in the sense that the game is rated T and as an MMO we are interacting with other players who for example signed on for a T-rated game. If players are using language and/or modding to the point that it goes into hard R or X territory, I think SE absolutely has the right to enforce that. But I think to completely forget and ignore consumer demand is a huge mistake and can seriously lead to the death of a franchise. SE is pretty damn good to its fans, and I think their success reflects that. I don't think they should stop that.

Japan and SE aren't going to be shielded from Western values/opinions forever since they participate in a global market and marketing shapes cultures.

No offense intended truly, but I laughed pretty hard at this. Western media currently is in the toilet in pretty much every way it possibly could be, whereas Asian media has been finding ungodly success by comparison. Additionally, they can absolutely leave off the West if they wanted or had to. It would be a shame, but they 100% would survive. Their domestic success is absolutely insane. They literally do not need us. On top of this, because of Western media being in the toilet more and more people have been turning to Asian media instead across a number of entertainment mediums. There are literally people in the West rn trying to figure out how Asia is doing this and how they can replicate it because of the difference in success.

Asian stories might not get shown in mainstream Western media as much because frankly there are issues with domestic monopolies and discrimination going on, but even with Hollywood insanity we're getting more and more Western remakes of films and mangas that Asia did better. There's a reason for that. The West has some serious catching up to do rn.

I don't think the OP was any of those things either but their line of "I thought you were better than that SE" is in the same vein of "I think this is a problem and you should change it". It's not threatening or out of line, but it still insinuates they wish to change something due to personal taste.

Idk I just took that as OP being frustrated and disappointed. In general when people are frustrated and disappointed they'd do things differently if they had the chance. It's okay.

[Selova]

Why does every female have to be dressed in a Burka to satisfy some people?

Yeah I dont get it. Nothing wrong with showing off what your momma gave ya.

[reivaxe]

What I'm complaining about is that the gear is barely there.

That's how they always looked.

The viera are practically nude.

That's how they always dressed.

They seem more like the outfits you'd see adult entertainers wear in a strip club.

That's how they always dressed and looked soooo they should be changed because of your opinion of it?

[Colino]

Personally, I'm only disappointed their starting gear are literally Fran's clothes and not what the other viera npcs wear in XII, lazy gear for a lazy race.

Fair enough but have you ever seen anyone still go around in their starting gear? How important is it really?

Not to mention all the other races can be semi-nude too. In that sense Viera is no different really. If it's bothersome you can dress them back up literally the instant after you fantasia'd.

[Nestama]

That's how they always looked.

That's how they always dressed.

That's how they always dressed and looked soooo they should be changed because of your opinion of it?

I mean, that's if you forget that FFTA (the very first game they appear in) is a thing.