Since Lore Suddenly Matters

[Lambdafish]

EXACTLY my point. The argument is is about whether or not used art will never be re-used again because it's "Too old" the point is it doesn't matter. Either for or against it. So people are wrong in assuming it will happen because there is "concept art" and people are wrong against arguing if it's too old to be used.

It might be used. But it being used would be part of a new dev cycle where new concept art is drawn up and this concept art may or may not factor into the design. Watch the dev panel from tokyo fan fest where the specifically talk about the development of the crystarium. It didn't start out anything close to its final product, and the idea of using the tech demo came later.

Therefore, if they were going to do Male Viera, they would be drawing up new concept art, maybe one of which based on that original art work, and then choosing what works best. The problem the devs have right now though, and Yoshi P specifically mentioned this as one of the many reasons why Hrothgar was chosen over Male Viera, is that people have their own preconceived ideas of what a male Viera looks like, and its difficult for the dev team to meet that expectation (the amount of people I have seen going "Male Viera needs to be small" is huge, which completely goes against Yoshi Ps own vision for them, and he is well aware of that).

[QT_Melon]

It might be used. But it being used would be part of a new dev cycle where new concept art is drawn up and this concept art may or may not factor into the design. Watch the dev panel from tokyo fan fest where the specifically talk about the development of the crystarium. It didn't start out anything close to its final product, and the idea of using the tech demo came later.

Therefore, if they were going to do Male Viera, they would be drawing up new concept art, maybe one of which based on that original art work, and then choosing what works best. The problem the devs have right now though, and Yoshi P specifically mentioned this as one of the many reasons why Hrothgar was chosen over Male Viera, is that people have their own preconceived ideas of what a male Viera looks like, and its difficult for the dev team to meet that expectation (the amount of people I have seen going "Male Viera needs to be small" is huge, which completely goes against Yoshi Ps own vision for them, and he is well aware of that).

Sadly the same is with Hrothgar, since Ronso is their equivalent. There's really a no win there

[Cilia]

Sadly the same is with Hrothgar, since Ronso is their equivalent. There's really a no win there

Eh? No, there are already female Ronso designs to base the female Hrothgar on, if indeed what they wanted to do was have the Hrothgar be carbon copies of the Ronso like the Viera are of their XII counterparts.

If there was a singular reason they didn't go with female Hrothgar, it would be the overwhelming fan demand for Viera and the disappointment that would result if they weren't introduced. As this is being billed as the last time ever new PC races are introduced... as a guarantee, at any rate... they felt forced by that selfsame fan demand to implement Viera. From what I understand, left to their own devices the devs would have just added in the full Hrothgar.

[QT_Melon]

Eh? No, there are already female Ronso designs to base the female Hrothgar on, if indeed what they wanted to do was have the Hrothgar be carbon copies of the Ronso like the Viera are of their XII counterparts.

If there was a singular reason they didn't go with female Hrothgar, it would be the overwhelming fan demand for Viera and the disappointment that would result if they weren't introduced. As this is being billed as the last time ever new PC races are introduced... as a guarantee, at any rate... they felt forced by that selfsame fan demand to implement Viera. From what I understand, left to their own devices the devs would have just added in the full Hrothgar.

And again the arguments being used FOR this, is also the reason for the backlash. They went for the easy stereotypical male big and burly, and while there's a faction that is pleased because they like bara or burly guys, there's also quite a bit of fans displeased that they used Ronso in lore and in their part of their design then genderlocked.

Keep in mind the thread started with "lore suddenly mattering" and people immediately trying to white knight this defense, to now "well the devs are forced" (to anything from dev time, they can't/won't use or base off old assets) and allowing themselves to go to the "safest route" and tropes. While the audience is fickle and yes, that's annoying to go through, I find both sides a bit leaning too much in their camps on trying to defend or antagonize over the design choices.

[Beki_Bayaqad]

They went for the easy stereotypical male big and burly, and while there's a faction that is pleased because they like bara or burly guys, there's also quite a bit of fans displeased that they used Ronso in lore and in their part of their design then genderlocked.

They.... didn't. The Ronso aren't as wide as the Hrothgar, being far more catlike in their builds, all of their pelts are blue, they all have long lionin tails are partly digigrade (like the veira but not needing heel support), are upwards of eight to ten feet tall depending on the ronso, and all have one type of facial build, Lionin (while the hrothgar have at least four and one is Lupine), with a single conical horn sticking out of their foreheads.

They are also a tribal race, not a queendom and are ruled by a *MALE* elder, not a female queen and even after the guado extermination there were still an even spread of males and females of the mountian dwelling species.

WHERE IS THAT IN THE HROTHGAR LORE?

[QT_Melon]

WHERE IS THAT IN THE HROTHGAR LORE?

Let's not be deliberately obtuse about it having no base reference. Especially since 1st Shard lists them as Ronso.


( I mean even the Viera in XIV other than import of Fran's model isn't a 100% translation of 12 Viera either)


This isn't some 100% original race, they were definitely trying to integrate Ronso into this and made it more obvious by linking it as a 1st Shard.

[Beki_Bayaqad]

Let's not be deliberately obtuse about it having no base reference. Especially since 1st Shard lists them as Ronso.


( I mean even the Viera in XIV other than import of Fran's model isn't a 100% translation of 12 Viera either)


This isn't some 100% original race, they were definitely trying to integrate Ronso into this and made it more obvious by linking it as a 1st Shard.

The first shard isn't Spira if that's what you're implying. If anything it's more Ivalice if any of the location names have anything to go by. Just because they're called Ronso there means jack, since they're called Hrothgar on Source and that's the world that matters since it's the one the game is based on. The Ronso from X didn't invent gunblades did they?

[LineageRazor]

The problem the devs have right now though, and Yoshi P specifically mentioned this as one of the many reasons why Hrothgar was chosen over Male Viera, is that people have their own preconceived ideas of what a male Viera looks like, and its difficult for the dev team to meet that expectation (the amount of people I have seen going "Male Viera needs to be small" is huge, which completely goes against Yoshi Ps own vision for them, and he is well aware of that).

The "smol manbuns" contingent is smol itself (even if I personally support it), and from what I've read of them, they almost OVERWHELMINGLY are of the opinion that, while it'd be great to have the women taller than the men for a change, they don't honestly think it would happen. It's something they WANT, not that they EXPECT, and I've seen nary a thread bellowing "SMOL MANBUNS OR RIOT". Even if Yoshi P made the claim that this contingent is why we can't have male Viera (and if he did, I missed it - when did this happen?), he knows quite well that very few are likely to quit over it. (And if people quitting were a concern, I'd say that dropping males entirely is much more likely to inspire ragequits than not building them the right way!)

No, I think the primary factor is as stated elsewhere in this thread: the devs really wanted Hrothgar, the fans really wanted Viera, there wasn't enough time to do two full races, and Yoshi P thinks male Viera would be "weird" anyway. (That, I'm pretty sure, is Yoshi P's only "vision" for male Viera: "Ew, no.")

[Lambdafish]

The "smol manbuns" contingent is smol itself (even if I personally support it), and from what I've read of them, they almost OVERWHELMINGLY are of the opinion that, while it'd be great to have the women taller than the men for a change, they don't honestly think it would happen. It's something they WANT, not that they EXPECT, and I've seen nary a thread bellowing "SMOL MANBUNS OR RIOT". Even if Yoshi P made the claim that this contingent is why we can't have male Viera (and if he did, I missed it - when did this happen?), he knows quite well that very few are likely to quit over it. (And if people quitting were a concern, I'd say that dropping males entirely is much more likely to inspire ragequits than not building them the right way!)

No, I think the primary factor is as stated elsewhere in this thread: the devs really wanted Hrothgar, the fans really wanted Viera, there wasn't enough time to do two full races, and Yoshi P thinks male Viera would be "weird" anyway. (That, I'm pretty sure, is Yoshi P's only "vision" for male Viera: "Ew, no.")

Rereading the interview answer I realize that it doesn't specifically mention this demographic, rather focuses on the dev teams fears. The quote is "We knew we only had Female Viera for reference, so we had no idea what to do for the Male variant. We would have to use our own imagination for that. There was fear about how we would approach that. Perhaps an elezen body with a miqo’te face and bunny ears. Would this be the right way to add this race to the game?"

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...8GTvPw4uI/edit (Q1) - As a side note, Q1 is great for answering many of the questions that people have in this thread, including the dev team wanting to do Hrothgar and not Viera, so I would highly recommend reading it.