The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[Kalise]

Aggro in this game is the only thing keeping tanks from just spamming their DPS rotations. they have to start their rotations with a high enmity gain combo (if they want to do damage) and maintain aggro by balancing their enmity combos with their DPS combos.

Except, they do just spam their DPS rotations.

They open with enmity combo + tank stance and then ditch both for the rest of the fight and rely on Circle-Shirks for enmity generation.

Unless they're undergeared. Then they might have to DPS combo in Tank Stance or weave in some enmity combos in DPS stance (Depends on how badly the gear discrepancy is)

Outside of times where DPS don't bother to use Diversion/Lucid/Refresh/Tactician and therefore don't quell their own enmity.

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

Wow when I started reading this thread out of curiosity, I didn't even hope it would been revived !

This one is a so beautiful jewel that I had to create my forum account to post.

Here is some food !

After the neverending overselfish statement "healers should not have to dps", which is false because they don't actually have to, I now especially like "plz get rid of the enrage timer" complaints...

Actually, those ppl are just saying that they don't want to adjust to the available content and what they do actually want is for the game to adjust to their needs without considering at any moment that there are ppl who can be fine with the actual state of the game design. And that's why those behaviors are so selfish.

What about healers that do actually like doing some dps while healing ? Or tanks that do want to push themselves farther at each try ? They don't have the right to play the way they feel too ?

Honestly, savage/ultimate content are OPTIONAL and only a tiny part of the game. All the story plot can be fulfilled with only doing normal content in which you can play in everyway you want since there is almost no enrage and all mech are permissive enough.

Don't ask the World to change to your standards without considering at any moment other people needs. That's selfish.

Definitely, That thread is truly a beautiful jewel...

[AxlStream]

Remove enrage and you'll remove every competent player from the environment as they'll all get their backs broken from carrying all the PF trash whenever they do things. Can't keep count of the ammount of runs wherr my Warrior ends up as top dps without overgearing the fight just because people die too much or just don't know how to play their job.

[Colino]

Without a dps check you can take a bunch of tanks and healers and not even need to bring a dps.

7 WARS and a WHM here we goooo

[Nihility]

I always kind of felt like the enrage timers could just use some balancing but otherwise aren't a big deal

like the primal and dungeon ones that exist are so loose that most people don't even know they exist
while the raid ones, even though the devs always say they're balanced around zero healer dps and tank dps in tank stance, I honestly feel extremely pressured to dps as hard as possible until the dps just straight up outgear the raid which seems kind of backwards.

[Kurando]

Someone needs to make the thread "The time has come to add MORE enrage timers". Definitely some enrages could use a little balancing perhaps, but I'd like to think it would help players to get better and learn rotations to a good potential where they aren't just getting by spamming one or two things you know.

[Aurelius2625]

Yes, as a tank I am a dps, after I have mitigated damage reslonsibly, and have a lead in aggro. What else is there? Jfc... use your head, fam.

[Aurelius2625]

Ahhh, "As a HEALER main". This explains everything

[Aramina]

Ahhh, "As a HEALER main". This explains everything

I don't know what you are replying to, but if it is something bad don't lump us all together.

- also a Healer main

[Ilan]

Folks brought up the point that, without enrage, you could just toss DPS to the curb and bring nothing but tanks and healers to a fight to guarantee a win. Thing is, though, nobody wants to farm a fight that takes an hour for each completion.

I bring up, once again, FFXI, a game with challenging fights and (mostly) no Enrages. Why didn't folks bring nothing but tanks and healers to these fights? Because tank and healer DPS SUUUUUUUCKED. Many enemies had built-in regeneration that would easily overtake an all-tank/healer's ability to pump out damage - but even for the ones that did not, the amount of time it would take for a such a group to win was simply untenable. It was also the case that resource regeneration was much more difficult in that game; with the exception of specific jobs (and even then, only in minute quantities), players did not regenerate MP or HP. In theory, a party of all tanks and healers could rotate a "resting" rotation to recover resources, but that would slow an already slow fight even further. In general, a six-man party contained one tank, one or two healers, and the rest DPS - it was the only sane way to play.

In this game, tanks and healers have decent DPS. They were given this so that they could participate competently in SOLO content - but folks (understandably) leverage it against GROUP content, as well. I believe Yoshi P said himself years ago that healer DPS was an unexpected component in raids, and that they needed to bump up the DPS check to compensate.

Even if we want to keep tank and healer DPS, and even if folks were actually willing to play it safe in spite of the longer fight times, there are plenty of ways to prevent the tank/healer zombie apocalypse. For example, rigidly enforce the role restrictions, even in pre-made parties - you CANNOT bring six healers to the fight, because exactly two healers is enforced. Another idea would be to have recurring DPS checks during the fight, without an enrage on the fight as a whole - you'd still have to pump out the numbers during these checks, so tanks and healers alone wouldn't be able to cut it.

tl;dr: The removal of enrage does not automatically give DPS a free ride, nor does it make them obsolete. It all depends how the content is built. I, personally, would have preferred that they built the game without Enrage being a necessity.

Stop comparing XI with IV because it is something completly different. If you would remove the enrage timers in the game as it is right now you can throw the worst players in there and kill it sooner or later because they can slowly fiddle the boss down. Thats not how it is supposed to be. You are supposed to be able to play your class properly to kill certain things in here.