The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[Aurelius2625]

I'm telling you RIGHT NOW as a tank main. If anyone does that shit where I'm FORCED to tank stance, I'm literally switching to DPS. Force that on the tank community. Go for it. We'll just stop playing tanks since you want to force that shit on us. Then when your queues are 3 hours long, you'll beg for them to remove the nerf. Go ahead. Try it.

PLD has: Sentinel, Rampart.............sheltron.... That's ALL of our defensive cooldowns for ourselves. TWO COOLDOWNS. Gauge can also be used on intervention to support the other tank.

DRK has: Dark Mind, Rampart, Shadow Wall, TBN. That's it. One of them is COMPLETELY USELESS against physical autos and tank busters like Midgardsormr's Tail End. The other has a mana cost and is undesirable to use unless needed to manipulate a GCD or burn excess mana which can be burned with another Dark Arts.

WAR has: Thrill of Battle (just basically an HP pad, not actual reduction of damage), Rampart, Vengeance, Raw Intuition. Raw is totally USELESS against magic damage like O12's Solar Ray, Savage Wave Cannon, Oversampled Wave cannon, Diffuse Wave Cannon, patch, etc.... Inner Beast which is gated behind tank stance, and is not on demand unless you have 50 gauge.

Take away rampart, and PLD has ONE cooldown outside of Sheltron. DRK has TWO cooldowns outside of TBN. War has THREE cooldowns outside of IB.

2 to 3 defensives. Yeah. That's a lot of cooldowns, man.

I hope that they do increase the amount of tank busters, it'd put more strain on tanks to actually tank swap and use cooldowns creatively and force healers to optimize.

Literally ALL you will achieve is: Healers min maxing EVEN more and tanks abusing swaps to extend the amount of cooldowns they have. You will NOT force tank stance on us, stop trying to. Never gonna happen, broskis.

I hate it when casuals try to dictate how MY job role should play. I don't demand the same of DPS classes, and healers. Please leave tanks alone. And if you are a tank main wanting such a horrendous nerf... shame on you.

[Ilenya]

I'm telling you RIGHT NOW as a tank main. If anyone does that shit where I'm FORCED to tank stance, I'm literally switching to DPS. Force that on the tank community. Go for it. We'll just stop playing tanks since you want to force that shit on us. Then when your queues are 3 hours long, you'll beg for them to remove the nerf. Go ahead. Try it.

Found the Blue DPS.

Seriously, though, why would you *not* want a situation where you have to be in tank stance to survive? As a healer main, having to actually be completely on the ball with keeping up tanks is what makes it exciting. I've started calling out dungeons with damage checks so low I could have kept old clerics on and been fine, and the few times I actually have to work? It's awesome. I feel like I actually DID MY JOB.

[Ilan]

Found the Blue DPS.

Seriously, though, why would you *not* want a situation where you have to be in tank stance to survive? As a healer main, having to actually be completely on the ball with keeping up tanks is what makes it exciting. I've started calling out dungeons with damage checks so low I could have kept old clerics on and been fine, and the few times I actually have to work? It's awesome. I feel like I actually DID MY JOB.

If you would've read and quoted the whole post you would know why. The skills here are too shitty to have fights where you HAVE to stay in tankstance because the mobs hit so extremly hard. The other problem would be that SE constantly tries to make the game easier to cater torwards their so called "casuals" that complain all the time that stuff is to hard. So your thought and SE's game politics are the opposit.

Fact is that if you have to stay in tankstance now, because of some "intelligent person" that refuses to use any emnity controll skill, you pull and spam you aggro skills for a few seconds and then go make a coffee because there is nothing else to do.

[Kalise]

Found the Blue DPS.

Seriously, though, why would you *not* want a situation where you have to be in tank stance to survive? As a healer main, having to actually be completely on the ball with keeping up tanks is what makes it exciting. I've started calling out dungeons with damage checks so low I could have kept old clerics on and been fine, and the few times I actually have to work? It's awesome. I feel like I actually DID MY JOB.

The thing is... That Tanks will always be focused around dealing damage in their current state.

Being forced into tank stance or not has very little impact on their actual playstyle. The only really notable changes are DRK's not having Blood Weapon (Which is a nice amount of SkS to make the job feel better) and PLD's having practically no Gauge generation (Compared to generating on ever AA in SwO)

Outside of that... Tank stances don't do a lot. They provide some passive mitigation. They also provide a heavy damage down penalty (Which also as a multiplier means that damage CD's from the party are also much less effective)

Being in tank stance to survive isn't fun or engaging. It's literally just you passively sit there and you live or die depending on which stance you're in. To say nothing about the kind of damage that was being suggested, that would bring you to 1 HP from full in tank stance meaning that healers would have to play suboptimally to ensure the Tank is at 100% life at all times (Or you know... Cheese the mechanic with shields, because they're not OP enough apparently)

If you want to enforce "Tank Stance" you have to make it provide something actually different and fun, rather than just being a passive "Damage is less" - More access to active mitigation for example, so while in Tank stance you'll be working on pressing skills to make you take less damage while still focusing on pumping out as much damage as you can. Or provide alternative mechanics (I once posited a FFXIII style Stagger mechanic that Tanks can build up while in Tank Stance)

Just saying "Make enmity a thing" doesn't work, because Enmity is a binary thing. It doesn't matter if you're above the 2nd player by 1 enmity or by 1 billion enmity, the outcome is still the same. Meaning that once you get top of enmity, you no longer need to generate more (Again, unless it works towards another mechanic that does scale infinitely *Cough*like for example a FFXIII style Stagger mechanic*Cough*)

So yeah, at the end of the day, I'm not one of those "Blue DPS" that's gonna cry and stamp my feet if I'm forced into Tank stance to Tank things (Since it honestly doesn't change much, it just lowers DPS on the parsers and effectiveness at helping burn down targets), it's just that... If "Tank Stance" is going to be enforced, I'd prefer if it was given some actual gameplay shift in using it, so that I wouldn't just be doing the exactly the same thing as in DPS stance, but at less effectiveness because "Random one-shots" are a thing.

Ideally, there would be significant gameplay differences between the stances and you'd be swapping between them depending on whether you're actively tanking or not, creating variety and ideally, making it so that Tank Stance doesn't feel like a punishment (Since that's all it really feels like, you get punished by having a dramatic drop in your damage output for the reward of... Passive defence -.-) - It's just this kind of thing doesn't sit particularly well with "Make Tanks completely braindead so derps can run them in DF because who cares about actually teaching people how to play the game" as it might be too taxing for Billy No-Brain to think about doing anything other than smashing 123 over and over ad infinitum >.>

[Nora_of_Mira]

Found the Blue DPS.

Seriously, though, why would you *not* want a situation where you have to be in tank stance to survive? As a healer main, having to actually be completely on the ball with keeping up tanks is what makes it exciting. I've started calling out dungeons with damage checks so low I could have kept old clerics on and been fine, and the few times I actually have to work? It's awesome. I feel like I actually DID MY JOB.

this "blue dps/green dps" mindset doesn't (or shouldn't) exist in endgame content, for the most part. Everyone is DPSing. Dungeons don't let anyone feel like they're doing their job because they are faceroll easy. Tank stance doesnt matter, healers can afk, dps can be dead... it doesnt matter. If you wanna feel like an actual healer and Tank, and HAVE to use your abilities at the right time or cause a wipe, you have to do extreme/savage content.

[Aurelius2625]

Ahhh, "As a HEALER main". This explains everything

[Aramina]

Ahhh, "As a HEALER main". This explains everything

I don't know what you are replying to, but if it is something bad don't lump us all together.

- also a Healer main