Genderlock reminder to SE

[MrKimper]

Yes it is a waste of resources in my opinion (which I am not going to attempt to get you to agree to). I don't think Blu can be compared to races being added as they come at an astronomically higher cost. Blu was a mini game afforded little resources in its current iteration.

So I see adding male viera and female hrothgar as having a larger drain on resources and therefore a larger impact on the pipeline.

Again I disagree, I can respect that insight but to me I believe a job like BLU which is already planned future support in the way of unique content, spell animations, balance and probably some sort of BLU duty finder along with it's own AF gear. Most likely (to my knowledge) took more developmental time than racial modeling, at least I believe modeling does not take up the same amount of dev hands that something like BLU, Ultimate or 24 man raids would take up. The only feasible issue would be QA testing time.

But again that's my take.

Edit: It wasn't about content it was about the work burden of modeling new gear for new races as well as the dev teams desire to add in a beastial race. Nowhere did they say "Well if we didn't do this we wouldn't have gotten 24 mans or 8 mans, we would have canceled content" Yoshida stated "If we did this we wouldn't have been able to have 2 races" this implies the racial modeling division is different from the background/enemy modeling division but connected to the gear modeling division as they aren't optimized to be separated faculties yet.

[WaterShield]

Again I disagree, I can respect that insight but to me I believe a job like BLU which is already planned future support in the way of unique content, spell animations, balance and probably some sort of BLU duty finder along with it's own AF gear. Most likely (to my knowledge) took more developmental time than racial modeling, at least I believe modeling does not take up the same amount of dev hands that something like BLU, Ultimate or 24 man raids would take up. The only feasible issue would be QA testing time.

But again that's my take.

So what people don't account for, is that when you add a race you have many things to account for modeling wise. Every piece of gear that existed before needs to be adapted to the new models. Every new piece of gear from here on out will also be more work to implement, because they need more versions of it to work properly for each race. These things add up to an exponential increase in dev costs. 1 Job and its queues is nothing in comparison.

TLDR each new racial model is a massive commitment to more work for the life of the game.


"Edit: It wasn't about content it was about the work burden of modeling new gear for new races as well as the dev teams desire to add in a beastial race. Nowhere did they say "Well if we didn't do this we wouldn't have gotten 24 mans or 8 mans, we would have canceled content" Yoshida stated "If we did this we wouldn't have been able to have 2 races" this implies the racial modeling division is different from the background/enemy modeling division but connected to the gear modeling division as they aren't optimized to be separated faculties yet. "

It would have meant they would have just done Male and Female Hrothgar... and the same amount of resources would have been spent as what we're getting now. Doing both male and female of both races was never on the table.

[Alucard135]

This discussion isn't going anywhere anymore. Better let this thread die out just like OP died from it lol.

[MrKimper]

So what people don't account for, is that when you add a race you have many things to account for modeling wise. Every piece of gear that existed before needs to be adapted to the new models. Every new piece of gear from here on out will also be more work to implement, because they need more versions of it to work properly for each race. These things add up to an exponential increase in dev costs. 1 Job and its queues is nothing in comparison.

TLDR each new racial model is a massive commitment to more work for the life of the game.

Yes exactly but the issue is assuming this is ALL the dev team does or they commit LARGE amounts of resources(Staff members, office members) to this one singular task, which isn't true. It's the same thing with emotes, each gear needs to be tested to see if it doesn't clash too heavily with emotes, actions, spells, castbars, and this STILL ends up with hiccups but each are tested to make sure visually as long as you aren't looking too closely, it's workable. It's the same reason we don't have moving capes even though cape data is in the game for odin's gear most likely.

The issue is saying for certain that races take up so much resources that they slow down the development of zones, battle content, balance, animations and conceptualization stages and require all developmental divisions to be drawn in to make sure they're completed. When that's not the case, rigging a skeleton is difficult of course but it's already been shown with fran(who's model is almost a 1 to 1 rendition of her XII model) that there are ways the dev team cuts this process down to be more feasible.

Edit: Exactly, that's what I'm stating it came at the cost of RACIAL content, not other content which is what you're stating and which I'm stating shouldn't be assumed. Whether it was off or on the table or not isn't really something any of us can 100% say as a certainty. However my point stands that if it is implemented again it will not take away from content already in the pipeline for development.

[LaylaTsarra]

Yes it is a waste of resources in my opinion (which I am not going to attempt to get you to agree to). I don't think Blu can be compared to races being added as they come at an astronomically higher cost. Blu was a mini game afforded little resources in its current iteration.

So I see adding male viera and female hrothgar as having a larger drain on resources and therefore a larger impact on the pipeline.

Edit: Also Square did say the reason we got female only Viera and male only Hrothgar is because they felt adding male Viera and female Hrothgar as well would be too much. They did what they did in order to please as many people as they felt they could while still keeping the same amount of content coming.

I agree.

It's pretty reasonable to believe that the funding for races was allocated along with the resources for a male and female race. It's hard to say how long they've been working on these additions but the team has pretty clearly indicated that 1) these are the last races we would be getting, and 2) that it's a tremendous amount of work to adjust all the gear for them which will only be compounded when having to adjust all the gear added in 5.0. I think the fact that the headgear won't be ready for launch supports how difficult it is to do.

I think it is also reasonable to believe that adding two additional genders (equivalent to one race) would require quite a bit of additional resources and the time and work needed to produce them would require additional funds that would need to come from somewhere. The question is will SE give the FFIV team additional funds to produce them or will they be required to make due with their current funding and resources available. We obviously don't know that but in lieu of additional monies other content that could have been produced will have to suffer.

[WaterShield]

Yes exactly but the issue is assuming this is ALL the dev team does or they commit LARGE amounts of resources(Staff members, office members) to this one singular task, which isn't true. It's the same thing with emotes, each gear needs to be tested to see if it doesn't clash too heavily with emotes, actions, spells, castbars, and this STILL ends up with hiccups but each are tested to make sure visually as long as you aren't looking too closely, it's workable. It's the same reason we don't have moving capes even though cape data is in the game for odin's gear most likely.

The issue is saying for certain that races take up so much resources that they slow down the development of zones, battle content, balance, animations and conceptualization stages and require all developmental divisions to be drawn in to make sure they're completed. When that's not the case, rigging a skeleton is difficult of course but it's already been shown with fran(who's model is almost a 1 to 1 rendition of her XII model) that there are ways the dev team cuts this process down to be more feasible.

Edit: Exactly, that's what I'm stating it came at the cost of RACIAL content, not other content which is what you're stating and which I'm stating shouldn't be assumed. Whether it was off or on the table or not isn't really something any of us can 100% say as a certainty. However my point stands that if it is implemented again it will not take away from content already in the pipeline for development.

Then why do the devs not want to commit to adding them? It implies they have other things they want to do more.

[MrKimper]

Then why do the devs not want to commit to adding them? It implies they have other things they want to do more.

According to Yoshida? because of the way they handle modeling gear, they are by Yoshida's own admission not optimized in this faculty. My personal assumption? who cares what I personally think, at the end of the day they made the call as they saw fit. My statement stands that if they reversed said call, it will not deeply effect the core content that the playerbase wants as that content is already in pre-production for SHB, and in "POSSIBLE" content in development for 6.0 should not be factored into this argument as whatever content we get for that is already in conceptualization, there could be hundreds of thousands of content concepts we will never see that are not added for this or that reason.

Pointing a finger and saying the racial genders are the primary suspect is speculation as we have no way of knowing.

A) What that content would be (therefore we would not know if it is being worked on by the same division that handles modeling)

B) If the races were the primary reason for cancellation of any content for 6.0.

Similarly again a comparison, many people assumed DNC was the reason we didn't get a healer, when in fact the dev team simply wishes to re-balance the healers and re-define/prune shield healing before adding in a new healer. You could make the argument that DNC took up resources for healer but that at the end of the day is an assumption not substantiated by what information we have.

[WaterShield]

According to Yoshida? because of the way they handle modeling gear, they are by Yoshida's own admission not optimized in this faculty. My personal assumption? who cares what I personally think, at the end of the day they made the call as they saw fit. My statement stands that if they reversed said call, it will not deeply effect the core content that the playerbase wants as that content is already in pre-production for SHB, and in "POSSIBLE" content in development for 6.0 should not be factored into this argument as whatever content we get for that is already in conceptualization, there could be hundreds of thousands of content concepts we will never see that are not added for this or that reason.

Pointing a finger and saying the racial genders are the primary suspect is speculation as we have no way of knowing.

A) What that content would be (therefore we would not know if it is being worked on by the same division that handles modeling)

B) If the races were the primary reason for cancellation of any content for 6.0.

Similarly again a comparison, many people assumed DNC was the reason we didn't get a healer, when in fact the dev team simply wishes to re-balance the healers and re-define/prune shield healing before adding in a new healer. You could make the argument that DNC took up resources for healer but that at the end of the day is an assumption not substantiated by what information we have.

So to extrapolate, since their pipeline for this is not optimal, it takes more resources to do than other additions to the game that do have an optimized pipeline.

It doesn't matter what "division" someone works in. Either they are doing work on the project that has money allocated to it, they are moved to a different project, or they are let go. This is the reality of development.

The lack of another race does not mean people will simply be idle.

[Nora_of_Mira]

So why are we including the people who don't care one way or another into the equation? :v I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't see the relevance. In general the majority isn't going to care about anything

I want to make this thread to remind SE that a majority of their playerbase wants genderlock to be removed as soon as possible

because we have to remind ourselves why are we even here in this thread. i know the topic has kind of drifted a bit, but I'm still in the camp of sacrificing a whole gender if it means my bunny girl can have twice as many customization options. SE is trying to please as many people as they can with what they have (im not going to attempt to say i know how much money/time they have like other folks have) and I'm okay with that.

[MrKimper]

So to extrapolate, since their pipeline for this is not optimal, it takes more resources to do than other additions to the game that do have an optimized pipeline.

It doesn't matter what "division" someone works in. Either they are doing work on the project that has money allocated to it, they are moved to a different project, or they are let go. This is the reality of development.

The lack of another race does not mean people will simply be idle.

You're kind of moving the goalpost, they are two separate resources on two separate divisions. It's not about whether someone is idle or not, it's about whether it directly conflicts with the work flow of OTHER divisions such as background modeling, combat balance or animation enough that content would be OUTRIGHT canceled or delayed which again content already in pre-production will not be and if it is it is mostly likely for a seperate reason (See DNC and New Healer or WAR fixes and Eureka being delayed). Which is not an assumption that can be made nor can you make the assumption that one division working on say enemy models for the 24 man raid will stop what they are doing to work on racial models, as the team that works on racial models to our knowledge could be a separate team that works on enemy or character models.

It just isn't a realistic statement to make that for sure content "MAY" be canceled, it's just irrational for the reasons I've reiterated before with ishgard housing and other things. if your personal opinion is that it is a waste of resources, again that is fine but stating it as a fact leads multiple holes in your reasoning, it implies they have one singular team that focuses on one content at a time and then moves on to the next content in order, which is an inefficient way of working.

The issue is you implying ALL RESOURCES currently devoted to other projects will be placed on working on racial genders, leading to them being delayed/cancelled which is just not how game development works. When one project begins another division does not stop working, likewise when one project ENDS a division does not stop working.

Multi-tasking and assigning multiple staff to multiple projects being worked on at the same time exist, money is not directly allocated into projects unless they are something like a fanfestival. Either way again there's no reason to get into that as the statement "If they work on the genders we won't get new content" is not substantiated by anything Yoshida has said, he simply stated that it is a taxing undertaking not that they will outright cancel content for it.