Full white-mage rework -

[Canadane]

How have you made WHM worse?

Bene on 60 seconds and tetra on 30 seconds means we never need to cast a GCD heal again, and you've made our DPS rotation EVEN WORSE.

I am not going to praise his ideas or anything but healers already don't cast GCD heals in most cases.

[Kurando]

I am lvl70 white mage i know unless you have pressense of mind. active your not healing for shit with current medica one. cure III is need very tricky

fact is what i see here are bunch of young white mages never attempted savage run in their life..

There many players that are level 70 and don't know how to use their job properly, never think that level means something because sometimes it's just a number. You ought to consider taking feedback from other players in the thread, they are not just saying things to disagree with you but mostly because several have a good idea on what does and doesn't need fixing.

Do you run savage by the way, which ones have you run and cleared? Have you also tried ultimate? This are legitimate questions.

[HyoMinPark]

you guys didn't let me finish the suggestion before i start judging-

It’s generally considered best to give your suggestion in its entirety before you post. That way, we have the full picture with regards to what you’re saying—not just points with little to no explanation, or little to no rhyme or reason to them.

That being said, everything you posted regarding changes to WHM (before this post and since) is either non-sensical, unnecessary, or both, in my opinion. The only thing I personally think WHM needs going forward is a type of utility. It’s time to dump this “pure healer” or “burst healer” design, unless the developers are actually going to make content utilize burst healing. As it stands, there are groups that have healed current Savage with nothing but oGCDs, so clearly a “pure healer” like WHM is not going to work if design encounters remain the same with regards to damage output. Personally, I’d rather see more heal-intensive fights.

only time you actually use medica II when you need to place regan whole party. base heal isn't strong enough to cast it second time nor should you

Yes, that is, in fact, when you use Medica II. You use its HoTs to tick people up to full instead of doing Medica > Medica > (maybe Medica again). MP conservation and MP efficiency all rolled into one.

It seems like you don’t understand the concept of HoTs and how they’re supposed to work. People don’t need to be at 100% health, 100% of the time. If there’s not a heavy mechanic happening until 30~60 seconds later, a WHM (or Di AST) casts Medica II/Di Aspected Helios instead of multiple back-to-back non-HoT AOE heals, and allows the HoTs to tick everyone up to full or to survivable HP levels. They conserve MP from not doubling/tripling up on non-HoT AOE heals, and they can put that MP towards more DPS.

The only time people need to be topped is if there is a heavy mechanic coming—but, even then, if you’re working with a shield healer, you can learn just how much mitigation you can get away with, and how low people can be to survive something like Final Omega’s Ion Efflux. It’s trial and error, but you can live heavy mechanics without being 100% if you utilize mitigation abilities (including mitigation that comes from tanks or ranged DPS, like Divine Veil, Shake it Off, Troubadour, and Addle—and then HoTs can be used to tick players up to full while you DPS the boss (provided that you haven’t planned an oGCD AOE heal there instead—healing is planned in things like Savage and Ultimate; it’s not reactive).

reason why pressense of mind is a problem is because your too relitate on it. you shouldnt need relay on cool-down to heal or dps correctly but you do. that is the issue

I don’t play WHM at any optimized level (I mostly just derp around on it in Mentor Roulette, Raid Roulette, and Alliance Roulette), but PoM seems to be more of a DPS cooldown than a healer one unless things really start to head south (I could be wrong, though, so there’s my disclaimer).

That being said, what you’ve said here could apply to things like Largesse—but both still have their functions. They just don’t seem to be in line with what you personally want them to be. Again, your CD usage is all planned in high-end content. You have a set point where you use Largesse (on all healers). SCHs have set points where they use Indom. ASTs have specific timings for Earthly Star. They aren’t YOLO beyond when you’re doing fresh prog and figuring out said timings—timings all vary depending on your comp and what other tools your raid members have to offer, so one static may use different healing cooldowns at specific moments from another static.

cause we have lucid dreaming, thin air and assize we never need for nothing. reason why thin air so bad cause become to relate on that skill. back in arr you had actually manage your mp and mp amanagement is a part of what a healer should be doing. not constantly being spoonfed cheese easy skills.

You still have to be mindful about your MP even on WHM. Believe it or not, I’ve seen WHMs bottom out because they 1. Don’t know how to properly play the job, and seem to think the only healing they need to do is Medica II > Medica II > Medica II > ad nauseum, and 2. They don’t utilize their tools of Lucid, Assize, and Thin Air.

Thin Air is pretty nice for heal-heavy moments so that you don’t drain too much of your resources. I’m not a pro-WHM by any stretch, but I use it in a situation like Thundergod Cid’s Cleansing Strike: Thin Air > Cure III > Cure III > Plenary is usually what I do when I’m soloing that heal (because people are generally smart enough to stay stacked for that mechanic, I’ve actually found a good use for Cure III over Medica spam). Thin Air saves me 4,560 MP in that scenario (plus more if I’m able to get a few Stone IV casts out during its duration). Hey, I’ll take that. Thin Air is also good to use if you have to throw out multiple Raises. Just getting out 2 Raises under it is 7,200 MP.

It functions similarly to Lightspeed, in that you utilize it when you have to spend a lot of resources, and you use it to mitigate the drain it does to your MP. A part of AST optimization is optimizing Lightspeed during periods of heavy healing, because AST has serious MP problems this expansion. LS usage changes on a fight-by-fight basis, and I’d imagine that Thin Air does as well.


I’ll give you that WHM has the best MP economy of the three healers; but if you fail to actually manage it, you will run into problems. Also if you have a party of people that love to stand in crap, you’ll need to be more careful with your resources so you can use them to babysit (especially when you have that physical ranged that doesn’t know what Refresh is).

only times find myself of need for mp when spaming aoe heal or using holy

Holy Spam is also another good use of Thin Air. I pop it during trash usually so I can Holy at 0 cost for 10 seconds. Lightspeed can be used similarly during Gravity spam.

If you need a single ability to function as a healer. that ability should not exist it should become a passive. cause their be times you wont have pressence of mind up. during those times you dont you will die. you wipe the party cause cant met the dps checks required for you to do savage

If your Savage DPS checks are hanging on the DPS of a healer to clear, the problem is NOT that Presence of Mind is currently on CD. The problem is either 1. You had WAY too many deaths and half of your raid has Weakness/Brink of Death, since DPS checks (and enrages) in current Savage are extremely lenient, or 2. Your DPS are just trash, and you should probably replace them with DPS that actually fulfill their role’s most basic function.

PoM and Thin Air are not skills that WHM are reliant on to the point where it cannot function without them. But that doesn’t mean that the skills don’t fulfill a purpose within the entirety of the job’s kit.

whole thought line is am a healer shouldn't have to help with dps is a load of crap you know it. if ever comes a time where healers dont need to dps just sit their look pretty dont do anything in battle but spawn cure on the tank. then I honestly dont want be healer

This is honestly the only thing you’ve said in this thread that I can agree with.

fact is what i see here are bunch of young white mages never attempted savage run in their life. or even know what massive dps checks are why it is important to met these checks. currently white mages not wanted in savage cause have no utility don't bring anything other two healers can't do better. and that is wrong

I may not have healed this tier of Savage (simply because I’ve been super lazy about going in and doing some learning parties), but I have participated in past tiers on all three healers. I’ve also participated in and cleared every tier this expansion, and I’ve cleared UwU. The DPS checks in Savage are not so tight that you’re relying on a WHM with PoM off-cooldown to meet them.

That being said, you keep talking about Savage, so I have to ask: do YOU participate in Savage? Have you ever healed any Savage floor? I want to know, because you keep bringing up the content, and I want to know if you actually have any experience with it.


I had a post written with more well-thought out responses to all of your changes, but it was also very long and I lost it because my browser refreshed. RIP. I don’t feel like typing it all out again, but I will gladly do so if you’re curious as to what I had to say.

[Seraphor]

I don't think WHM needs a 'full' rework.
With a few tweaks and additions, you could quite significantly change it up.

For example:

Shell
30s cooldown.
Bestow a 10% damage resistance buff on target for 15s.
Additional effect: Magic damage received by target has a 20% chance of granting you a Lily.

Protect
60s cooldown.
Bestow a 5% damage resistant buff on all party members in range for 30s.
Additional effect: Physical damage received by targets has a 10% chance of granting them a confession stack.

(Shell/Protect would stack with each other)

Lilies are generated only by Medica and Medica II, or by hits received via Shell.
Lilies are only spent when using Cure, Cure II or Cure III.
1 Lily = Cast time of Cure/II/III reduced by 0.5s
2 Lilies = Cast time reduced by 1.5s
3 Lilies = Cast time reduced to 0.

This would give WHM some useful utility in Shell/Protect, and the other healers losing Protect would give WHM some edge over them. They would interact with their Lily mechanic, which in turn would be useful in granting mobility.
Mechanically, it’s not a major shift to the way they function, Lilies are still pretty much passive but with a greater effect, it’s just two additional cooldowns, and WHM doesn’t have enough buttons as it is if you ask me.

[lordcruxis]

I don't think WHM needs a 'full' rework.
With a few tweaks and additions, you could quite significantly change it up.

For example:

Shell
30s cooldown.
Bestow a 10% damage resistance buff on target for 15s.
Additional effect: Magic damage received by target has a 20% chance of granting you a Lily.

Protect
60s cooldown.
Bestow a 5% damage resistant buff on all party members in range for 30s.
Additional effect: Physical damage received by targets has a 10% chance of granting them a confession stack.

(Shell/Protect would stack with each other)

Lilies are generated only by Medica and Medica II, or by hits received via Shell.
Lilies are only spent when using Cure, Cure II or Cure III.
1 Lily = Cast time of Cure/II/III reduced by 0.5s
2 Lilies = Cast time reduced by 1.5s
3 Lilies = Cast time reduced to 0.

This would give WHM some useful utility in Shell/Protect, and the other healers losing Protect would give WHM some edge over them. They would interact with their Lily mechanic, which in turn would be useful in granting mobility.
Mechanically, it’s not a major shift to the way they function, Lilies are still pretty much passive but with a greater effect, it’s just two additional cooldowns, and WHM doesn’t have enough buttons as it is if you ask me.

So, realistically, you're not going to be hit with more that two magic hits within a 15s window, so at best you have around a 36% chance of getting a lily without spamming medica/2. This change doesn't really do anything, they have pretty much a null impact on whm playstyle.

Also, there is essentially never raidwide physical damage, making protect pretty worthless. You made an expanded bole with a side effect that will never proc.

[Eloah]

As a SCH main I feel I am not one to judge the state of WHM. However, I do have some suggestions.

1: Please leave the oGCD heals for SCH as it works with our kit and solidifies our identity.
2: WHM needs a water spell, a OGCD one, a GCD one, a ground marker, whatever, they need a water spell.
3: Repose needs to be removed from the main tool kit. As well as Sleep from BLM. Repose/Sleep needs to be made a role action. As it stands WHM is the only healer with any form of crowd control. The CC abilities that all Casters/Healers have should be made into role actions so that this frees up an ability slot for something new.
4: WHM needs protect back, but not the original version. Protect is an issue as it was only left in because it was iconic, and not because it was useful. WHMs need an iconic version of Protect all to themselves.

That's all I can think of for now.

[Orbus]

Also, there is essentially never raidwide physical damage, making protect pretty worthless.

That's probably intentional.
I recall hearing that they don't like protect since it essentially forces them to design all dungeons and bosses around it, and would become an especially bad problem with people raised during the fight since it was physical and they only barely survive with protect, it just turns into a straight up one shot without it, which people just ressed wont.
Don't be surprised if it's removed or completely changed in ShB.

[Tint]

1: Please leave the oGCD heals for SCH as it works with our kit and solidifies our identity.

The problem with this identity is that it causes the balance issue WHM is suffering under.

While SCH can freely dps and uses his off-GCDs to heal, WHM has to use his GCDs to heal wich cuts into his dps output. And without any support skills WHMs dps is all he can bring to the table.

SCH simply can't have support skills, off-GCD heals AND a fairy wich further reduces the amount of GCDs you have to spend on healing. Where is the trade-off?

3: Repose needs to be removed from the main tool kit. As well as Sleep from BLM. Repose/Sleep needs to be made a role action. As it stands WHM is the only healer with any form of crowd control. The CC abilities that all Casters/Healers have should be made into role actions so that this frees up an ability slot for something new.

Hm, is there anything left we can take away from WHM and give it the other healers? Let's think about it... CROWD CONTROL! Yes, nobody needs it anyway, but I demand it NOW.

[Seraphor]

So, realistically, you're not going to be hit with more that two magic hits within a 15s window, so at best you have around a 36% chance of getting a lily without spamming medica/2. This change doesn't really do anything, they have pretty much a null impact on whm playstyle.

Also, there is essentially never raidwide physical damage, making protect pretty worthless. You made an expanded bole with a side effect that will never proc.

Then change the numbers...

[Seraphor]

Seriously, lilies are crap, my suggestion is 1000x better, and you shut it down based on the value of a hypothetical proc rate...