Dear SE, I am a Healer

[Vaer]

as has been said before in terms of what player is looking for in a class, dps is not universal. I think there is a disconnnect because healers and tanks tend to see themselves as healers or tanks first and foremost, where as dps do not.

this is probably because dps is not actually representing a fantasy archetype. dps is the everything except healer/tank category.

common fantasy archetypes are

healer, tank, fighter, ranged, caster

when you realize this, you see that ranged users may have felt under represented. Also support probably feels under represnted.

and a person looking for a caster fantasy would probably not care about a tank, a healer, or a fighter

so when you say dps you got X, it doesnt really resonate with people. They dont see themselves as dps usually.

So since fighter/melee DPS (4) is over represented, I guess they shouldn't get an addition until all roles/subroles get 4 jobs. (Caster if we don't count BLU which SE doesn't anyway, Healer, Another new Ranged DPS) So melee DPS is gonna be waiting 6 years, too. Would people that like fighter/melee DPS be happy about that? Fair is fair I guess.

I don't think that's going to happen.

[cicatriz313]

So since fighter/melee DPS (4) is over represented, I guess they shouldn't get an addition until all roles/subroles get 4 jobs. (Caster if we don't count BLU which SE doesn't anyway, Healer, Another new Ranged DPS) So melee DPS is gonna be waiting 6 years, too. Would people that like fighter/melee DPS be happy about that? Fair is fair I guess.

I don't think that's going to happen, since melee will probably get #5 next expansion.

It would 100% be fair. If it happens and you see any of us whining about it, call us out on it then.

[RukiaFae]

From the first fanfest, it seems Blu was kind of the brain child of "Mr. Atma" (forget the dev's real name). I don't think it would have diverted much time from jobs in general because it didn't really need balancing or anything.

Does it matters who idea it was? The company decided to push forward with it. Even if it takes less resources to make a limited job, the still need to use resources from that area. The need to add in animations, skill potency, job story line, and balancing the mask carnival.

When you can't deliver on a project you already committed to, you don't take any resources from that project and have them start on a new project now matter how little resources are being used. If your stakeholders are told you can't deliver on the project you promised in a timely manner but find out you were also working on small side projects they would be upset.

The real issue is they under delivered on the promise of balance and now want their customers to continue to be patient while they make it better. If the healer jobs felt unique and balanced I would feel a lot better about waiting another two years, however that is not the case. They didn't get it right the first time so why should people have faith they will get it right this time. How long is ok to wait for them to get right before it is acceptable to be upset?

[Miste]

I mean, you've given your feedback and your opinion and people have posted the reasonings but people continue to use false logic to claim they've been wronged.

What false logic? People are stating their opinion on why they feel they have been wronged. Personally some of my opinions are based on facts that we know.

Fact #1
Healer is not getting a new job for the release of 5.0. Proven by an interview with the producer.

Fact #2
Healer has not gotten a new job for 4 years now. AST was released in HW.

Fact #3
IF we don't get any healer during 5.0 then it will be up to 6 years with no new healer job.

Fact #4
Healers have had balance issues for 4 years now.

Fact #5
SE knew about healer balance issues since 3.0, and their reason at 4.0 for no new healers was balance problems, yet knowing that healers needed work they spent time and resources on BLU (limited job side content) instead of fixing healers (main job primary content).

I think the analogy is a good one. I'm sure it's easy to excuse behavior when it's people arguing on your side, but refusing to see when you're wrong is disrespectful in itself.

Excuse what behavior? I haven't seen anyone "arguing on my side", as you put it, use name calling towards your side or call people "children" in a condescending way to belittle your side's opinion, like I said, can you point it out to me? It is a big thread so I may have missed something.

How can someone be "wrong" about their personal opinion on something?

In your opinion DPS has sub roles so that means it is fine to ignore healer to add more DPS because their "sub roles" needed it too.

In my opinion I am looking at the bare bones idea of the trinity system. DPS all have one main goal: to do damage. So I see them as a whole unit, they just all play different ways, but their end goal is the same: do damage.

Even if I think about sub roles I mean...they are sub roles within a main role...why are "sub roles" more important than a main role anyway? Also SE had an opportunity to fix this sub role issue at 4.0, but they added a 4th melee job instead of balancing out the ones we had /shrug

I mean the base of the game's design is that this is a trinity battle system, and they are ignoring an entire section of that triangle. Doesn't seem proper to me.

I mean you can't say I am wrong to have this opinion, sorry, just like I am not saying you are wrong for having yours. I just don't agree with it.

To make it clear, when they made dancer a dps job, it didn't give all dps players something to be happy about. They made a job that appeals to people who tend to play bard. Saying that just because I play dps I got a "cookie" in this scenario is disrespectful to me because it's not how I feel. You're speaking for me.

So, explain why you don't like that cookie analogy and explain why you feel it is disrespectful. Calling people children cause of if it solves nothing and I had to call you out on it to actually get a proper response from you.

The poster did not insult you with derogatory words or speak down to you. So I feel like you are misunderstanding.

It was an analogy to explain how healers have not gotten any new jobs for 4 years and will go to 6 if we don't get one in 5.0. I mean this is a fact you can't refute: we are not getting a healer at 5.0 as confirmed in an interview. People are viewing the roles as the overall trinity not splitting them into sub roles. So yes DPS got their cookies, and so did tank, we aren't talking about sub roles or any of that.

It has nothing to do with which people like certain dps types or which ones they dislike. That is going into subjective areas. The fact is healer is not getting a new job for 5.0. It is not getting a new job for possibly 6+ years. People who enjoy healer roles will not be getting a new job to play with. That is why some healers are upset. It has nothing to do with what you like or don't like or what dps are happy or not happy. So I hope this clears that up.

Also, the rolling around on the floor bit was still a part of the children analogy. In this case it was referring to people not accepting the reasoning they got from Yoshida.

They don't have to accept their reasons, just like you don't have to accept the reasons for our opinions either. It doesn't make any of us "children" just for having opinions or criticisms about something we pay for.

[Physic]

So since fighter/melee DPS (4) is over represented, I guess they shouldn't get an addition until all roles/subroles get 4 jobs. (Caster if we don't count BLU which SE doesn't anyway, Healer, Another new Ranged DPS) So melee DPS is gonna be waiting 6 years, too. Would people that like fighter/melee DPS be happy about that? Fair is fair I guess.

I don't think that's going to happen.

they might not be happy about it. but it wouldnt be 6 years any way.

next two would probavly be caster and healer. after that melee and ranged.

and that doesnt seem that unlikely.

all i am telling you really is players dont identify as dps generally.

[Physic]

Does it matters who idea it was? The company decided to push forward with it. Even if it takes less resources to make a limited job, the still need to use resources from that area. The need to add in animations, skill potency, job story line, and balancing the mask carnival.

When you can't deliver on a project you already committed to, you don't take any resources from that project and have them start on a new project now matter how little resources are being used. If your stakeholders are told you can't deliver on the project you promised in a timely manner but find out you were also working on small side projects they would be upset.

The real issue is they under delivered on the promise of balance and now want their customers to continue to be patient while they make it better. If the healer jobs felt unique and balanced I would feel a lot better about waiting another two years, however that is not the case. They didn't get it right the first time so why should people have faith they will get it right this time. How long is ok to wait for them to get right before it is acceptable to be upset?

blue may have been short, but it is one of the most entertaining jobs to be added in last few years, I'm pretty happy they added it, and excited to see how it develops.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

they might not be happy about it. but it wouldnt be 6 years any way.

next two would probavly be caster and healer. after that melee and ranged.

and that doesnt seem that unlikely.

all i am telling you really is players dont identify as dps generally.

This. While I play SAM, I don't even really play other melee DPS. I don't caster at all, except RDM in anemos. I only leveled mch, and am not much of a Bard. I can't sch at all, tho I'm meh at whm and ast. I can pld just fine, but war is meh and I can't drk at all. Even as someone who can play decently in across the 3 roles, I wouldnt say that I can play any of the 3 dps varients well. And anyone who thinks a dps is a dps may as well think a tank is a healer.


When I was a tank main they added drk. I stayed pld, cuz drk didn't interest me much, after the initial, oooh new job excitement. If them adding new jobs was what kept it interesting, EVERYONE would be the new role job, but that doesn't really happen, most people like their job in the role they play, and that doesn't shift much.

I can understand being upset at not getting the chance to try something new, but healers are so broken right now it's a bad idea. They need to redo both tanking and healing imo, but they are adding a new tank anyway. Not that I will play it likely, the rise of dps with more hp and a cd killed the role for me.

[cicatriz313]

Stuff.

Throughout the thread I've corrected the falsehood that is equating all dps jobs the same. It wasn't you "calling me out on it" that made me post it, I've done it multiple times. The fact that you're still arguing about it shows you clearly misunderstand how this game is and there's no way to change your mind. What I CAN do, and HAVE done is continue to post the reasons for what happened, and how the dev team (and possibly most players) view the divide among the playerbase. I've admitted that I thought healers would get a new job too, but really the only accurate statement people have said is that healers haven't gotten a new job since HW. If healers hadn't continued to push the inaccuracy that all dps are looked at the same when assigning new jobs, this thread wouldn't have had so many responses. Like it's not opinion, it's obvious how the dev team look at the situation and it was clearly stated as such.

Does it matters who idea it was? The company decided to push forward with it.

I meant more that in the dev panel they made it seem like... Yoshihara? something like that. (Mr. Atma) did most of the work himself. And since it wasn't a fully fleshed out job, it probably didn't take much away from any other jobs. I think the animations are kind of copy/paste from the monsters seemingly, and I don't think masked carnivale needs much "balance" besides like, how to place these monsters to explode in the right way. To say you didn't get a healer job or you didn't get balances you deserve because of BLU I think is not an accurate statement.

[Tlachtga]

What I CAN do, and HAVE done is continue to post the reasons for what happened, and how the dev team (and possibly most players) view the divide among the playerbase..

Nobody asked you to do that. Especially with such a condescending tone.

People are allowed to voice their disagreements with the developer's ideas and visions. If you don't like their reasoning, move on.

[Vaer]

they might not be happy about it. but it wouldnt be 6 years any way.

next two would probavly be caster and healer. after that melee and ranged.

and that doesnt seem that unlikely.

all i am telling you really is players dont identify as dps generally.

I mean I guess they could mess it up with a 2 dps expansion again. Just let the tanks know they're gonna be waiting 6 years after GUN (longer than the game has been out at this current moment) with that setup if the game is even going to be around for that long.

If they end up adding a melee next expansion this parity excuse is going to come back to bite them. I'm sure people will come up with a reason if it does happen though, like BLU is caster #4 because it is listed in the game under casters.