Dear SE, I am a Healer

[OcieKo]

... not sure what you're going on about but everyone but healers surely didn't get something new this time. Unless you are still insisting all dps get a new job any time any dps is added, which again, is wrong. I main melee dps. Obviously there are more melee than anything else so I'm set, but I certainly didn't get a new job this time as you're implying.

Even if you divide melee and ranged DPS, the longest melee DPS has gone without an addition is around 3 years from Ninja to Samurai. You may have gotten passed over in HW, but halfway between ARR and HW you got Ninja. Tanks got additions in 3.0/5.0 (no one is complaining here, once every 4 years). Ranged got additions in 2.0/3.0/4.0/4.41/5.0. Healers are at 2.0/3.0/6.0. And Melee are at 2.3(I think was Shiva/Ninja)/4.0 (around 3 years between no complaints really).

When it comes to new jobs though, people tend to play the new flavor of their current role. Thus the point of "Adding a new Tank/Healer doesn't really add much to the Tank/Healer pool as most of the new ones are the old ones as a new job". So lets say you have 100 Tanks, 100 Healers, and 200 DPS players for math's (maths' for non NA) sake. Lets say about 90% of a new job's players come from within the role, 10% from without. Now tanks should get 10 players, and DPS 20 new players for 10% increases. Lets say the other 2 roles fill in for half each of the new players to the other roles, tanks have 10 people go DPS, healers have 10 people go dps. Healers have 5 people go tank, DPS have 5 people go tank. So Tank gains no players (-10 to DPS +5 from healers +5 from DPS = 0), Healer loses 15 (-10 to DPS -5 to Tank = -15), DPS gains 15 (+10 from tank + 10 from healers - 5 to tank = +15). Now you are at 100 Tanks, 85 Healers, 215 DPS. Albeit if we were more realistic about starting numbers out of 400 (I use 400 because its 100 players per party spot and works for 4 and 8 man content, but not 24) players it'd probably be 30-40 Tanks, 60-70 Healers, 300 DPS but mathematically a pain to work with. And yes the math here ignores new players, as it is a number that can't really be predicted, and at the point where it's relevant less so.

[OcieKo]

... not sure what you're going on about but everyone but healers surely didn't get something new this time. Unless you are still insisting all dps get a new job any time any dps is added, which again, is wrong. I main melee dps. Obviously there are more melee than anything else so I'm set, but I certainly didn't get a new job this time as you're implying.

Healers are now exempt from a new one twice in a row. No other role has gone that long yet. Tanks maintain the record of once every 4 years as the old high end until the lack of a healer. At this point for melee to match healers you would have to get no expansion additions or mid way additions until about 8.0. Though I doubt you'll make it til 7.0 without a new melee added. If the trend maintains, around 5.3/5.4 the next melee would be added, tho i suspect melee will get one in 6.0 or 7.0 or the next limited would be melee.

[Seraphor]

Healers are now exempt from a new one twice in a row. No other role has gone that long yet. Tanks maintain the record of once every 4 years as the old high end until the lack of a healer. At this point for melee to match healers you would have to get no expansion additions or mid way additions until about 8.0. Though I doubt you'll make it til 7.0 without a new melee added. If the trend maintains, around 5.3/5.4 the next melee would be added, tho i suspect melee will get one in 6.0 or 7.0 or the next limited would be melee.

Sure, HW gave us Tank, Healer and Ranged DPS, SB gave us Melee and Caster, and ShB gives us Tank and Ranged again. Healer is the last in line.
But for Healer to have a place in ShB, that means Ranged would be last in line. Someone has to lose out.
I wouldn't claim either role deserves it more than the other, but clearly they weren't ready to add in a new Healer yet. (although there is some argument for 3 healers 3 ranged so there's that)
healers drew the short straw, but someone had to, unless we got three jobs, which I don't think they'll ever try again.

[cicatriz313]

maths

I'm not sure who you are responding to but not only is your pocket math really really simplistic and off, you're still shoving all dps into the same "got a new job" reality. Just because it's helpful for your... Arguments? Doesn't make it true.

[Nujana]

healers drew the short straw, but someone had to, unless we got three jobs, which I don't think they'll ever try again.

To be fair, they could have gone down this road:
4.0 Caster/rDPS - 5.0 Tank/Heal - 6.0 mDPS/Caster or rDPS and so on
or
4.0 Tank/Caster - 5.0 Heal/rDPS - 6.0 Tank/mDPS, which would have been fair.

So this problem is entirely selfmade.

[Reiryuu]

I'm not sure who you are responding to but not only is your pocket math really really simplistic and off, you're still shoving all dps into the same "got a new job" reality. Just because it's helpful for your... Arguments? Doesn't make it true.

Considering how much time and resources it takes to create a new job such that we are only expected to see 2 per expansion, I think it's a little much to expect SE to cater to subclasses of a role vs. the role as a whole. You got 2 DPS jobs in Stormblood. One melee one ranged/caster. It only seems fair to allow the next expansion to pass up a DPS jobs so that the 2 roles that didn't get new jobs can get one. Then perhaps there can be 2 DPS again next expac or perhaps just 1 new job. Besides, they did spend resources on Blue Mage so... technically you got 2 and a half jobs this expansion. There's a of options for DPS and from what I hear, the balance between bard and MCH is pretty bad... maybe they should have focused more on balancing those two jobs before making a third, hmm?

[RukiaFae]

I think this what's annoying me most about the situation. Why waste resources on Blue Mage instead on focusing on the promise they made healers in 4.0? If it was taxing to create a job mid expansion, even a limited job takes resources from the job design team, they should have focused on balancing healers better than going off on a side project. Did they really need to throw in an additional project "limited jobs" into the mix when they had other issues to work on. Why not focus on getting their main priorities then save new ideas for a time when everything is more balanced. With limited jobs added they will need to divert some resources to that project.

They could have worked on balancing healers like promised, worked on DRK and MCH, or dded a new healer or ranged dps mid expansion before starting work on BLU. That would leave them with two new jobs for 5.0 and them introduce limited in 5.5 once everything was a little more even.

Some healers don't have faith that they will really balance healers this time around because it seems like they got side tracked and forgot that's what they were suppose to do in 4.0. A rule to remember is "under promise and over deliver". For healers in 4.0 they over promised balancing for 4.0 and under delivered. Hopefully we will get a nice surprise in May.

[Miste]

The only reason I feel this analogy is apt is because yeah, you're acting like children. The kids were given reason WHY they don't get cookies and they're like NO, THAT'S NOT IT, IT'S BECAUSE YOU HATE US! And they continued to roll around on the floor.

Despite your claims being wrong....(I don't see anyone screaming that they hate us or rolling on the floor)

Can you point out to me who is acting like children?

I'd like to know, because most of the people I see posting in my thread about the healer issue are being reasonable and simply explaining their feedback about this. If someone truly is not going support FFXIV anymore due to this issue then that is their choice, as long as they are being respectful and not yelling or screaming obscenities about it then what problem is there besides you simply not agreeing with said feedback?

It is 100% fine if you disagree, but then why not just discuss the points of the topic instead of telling everyone they are acting like children because they have an opinion you don't like?

Honestly this is the most respectful thread I've seen in GD in awhile (and definitely considering some of the other feedback threads going on right now) especially when it contains feedback, most people have really made me happy that they are being respectful and civil with their criticisms.

The majority of the ones I see giving immaturity to this thread are the ones making fun of people for having an opinion they don't agree with.

people are acting like children

You didn’t get a toy this expansion so you are going to act like a child until the adult gave in for what you want?

The only reason I feel this analogy is apt is because yeah, you're acting like children. The kids were given reason WHY they don't get cookies and they're like NO, THAT'S NOT IT, IT'S BECAUSE YOU HATE US! And they continued to roll around on the floor.

I mean, sure, everyone is entitled to their opinions, if you feel this way then that is fine, but all of these responses about posters who are simply discussing respectfully their feedback about this situation.

So looking at the facts of the situation....who are really acting like children here? The ones posting polite respectful feedback, ideas, and posts about a topic? Or the ones labeling other posters "children" as a way to insult and be condescending for no reason that I can see besides maybe "I don't like your opinions!" I mean I would understand if the posters you replied to actually were being rude, but you just need some common sense to see that is not the case.

Before you reply like "I wasn't talking to you" again, I don't care if you were or not. I simply don't want the thread to devolve into petty name calling and rude bickering like most OF threads do, so I personally would rather this antagonistic condescension stop for everyone's betterment.

[cicatriz313]

I mean, you've given your feedback and your opinion and people have posted the reasonings but people continue to use false logic to claim they've been wronged. I think the analogy is a good one. I'm sure it's easy to excuse behavior when it's people arguing on your side, but refusing to see when you're wrong is disrespectful in itself. To make it clear, when they made dancer a dps job, it didn't give all dps players something to be happy about. They made a job that appeals to people who tend to play bard. Saying that just because I play dps I got a "cookie" in this scenario is disrespectful to me because it's not how I feel. You're speaking for me. So if I end up getting a job next time it'll just lead to more misinformation. That's what I've been trying to curb. Also, the rolling around on the floor bit was still a part of the children analogy. In this case it was referring to people not accepting the reasoning they got from Yoshida.

Considering how much time and resources it takes to create a new job such that we are only expected to see 2 per expansion, I think it's a little much to expect SE to cater to subclasses of a role vs. the role as a whole.

It's fine for you to think that way, luckily for the playerbase, the dev team think differently. Yoshida knows that people tend to play certain types of jobs rather than certain roles. Asking a bard player to be happy to get a melee job is the same as telling a healer to be happy to get a caster, or a tank, or anything.

I think this what's annoying me most about the situation. Why waste resources on Blue Mage instead on focusing on the promise they made healers in 4.0?

From the first fanfest, it seems Blu was kind of the brain child of "Mr. Atma" (forget the dev's real name). I don't think it would have diverted much time from jobs in general because it didn't really need balancing or anything.

[Physic]

Considering how much time and resources it takes to create a new job such that we are only expected to see 2 per expansion, I think it's a little much to expect SE to cater to subclasses of a role vs. the role as a whole. You got 2 DPS jobs in Stormblood. One melee one ranged/caster. It only seems fair to allow the next expansion to pass up a DPS jobs so that the 2 roles that didn't get new jobs can get one. Then perhaps there can be 2 DPS again next expac or perhaps just 1 new job. Besides, they did spend resources on Blue Mage so... technically you got 2 and a half jobs this expansion. There's a of options for DPS and from what I hear, the balance between bard and MCH is pretty bad... maybe they should have focused more on balancing those two jobs before making a third, hmm?

as has been said before in terms of what player is looking for in a class, dps is not universal. I think there is a disconnnect because healers and tanks tend to see themselves as healers or tanks first and foremost, where as dps do not.

this is probably because dps is not actually representing a fantasy archetype. dps is the everything except healer/tank category.

common fantasy archetypes are

healer, tank, fighter, ranged, caster

when you realize this, you see that ranged users may have felt under represented. Also support probably feels under represnted.

and a person looking for a caster fantasy would probably not care about a tank, a healer, or a fighter

so when you say dps you got X, it doesnt really resonate with people. They dont see themselves as dps usually.