5.0 Combat changes: What do you expect?

[Ogulbuk]

I want combos to be consolidated into a single button the way it works now on PvP. I play on a console with a gamepad and its too annoying to have all those buttons on screen (I use macros to manage some but its still too much for the console UI to handle.)

There is zero reason to use combo abilities out of order anyways other than accidentally messing up your click. The game has been about weaving ogcds in between attacks and positioning for a long time anyways.

Edit:
Another thing I would love to see is a bit of re-organization of abilities. Some basics should just be available earlier in the game for progression reasons. Warriors, for instance, should not have to wait until level 60+ to get their gap-closer.

[Ilan]

I want combos to be consolidated into a single button the way it works now on PvP. I play on a console with a gamepad and its too annoying to have all those buttons on screen (I use macros to manage some but its still too much for the console UI to handle.)

There is zero reason to use combo abilities out of order anyways other than accidentally messing up your click. The game has been about weaving ogcds in between attacks and positioning for a long time anyways.

Edit:
Another thing I would love to see is a bit of re-organization of abilities. Some basics should just be available earlier in the game for progression reasons. Warriors, for instance, should not have to wait until level 60+ to get their gap-closer.

Keep that trash system in pvp, thank you. If i wanna play with moba like controlls, i'm gonna play a moba and not an mmorpg.

[DevilsDontFly]

Keep that trash system in pvp, thank you. If i wanna play with moba like controlls, i'm gonna play a moba and not an mmorpg.

ESO? GW2? Far from being trash system.

[MrKimper]

ESO? GW2? Far from being trash system.

This isn't those games, and it shouldn't implement that system. The current way of doing rotations is perfectly fine, the only issue is the combat loop for certain jobs aren't as rewarding as others/suffer from skill bloat. MCH/DRK are a few.

[Ogulbuk]

Keep that trash system in pvp, thank you. If i wanna play with moba like controlls, i'm gonna play a moba and not an mmorpg.

Curious: what makes you dislike that? Is there any scenario where you actually will use attack 2 of a combo chain without using attack 1? Or is it that you want the inherent ability of others to mess up? Would you be accepting of it being enabled as an option? Giving you the choice to either put all 5 abilities of a DRG combo in a row, while others are also allowed to just use the single button?

Edit: Or it would be upsetting to you if others have that option? How about this: would you be ok if combos required the previous action to ever execute the next step? That would at least allow me to macro up a priority list myself. I already do this today with Fang and Claw > Wheeling Thrust, and would appreciate freeing up space on my cross bar so I can have all my utility abilities at hand and only have my combos take 2 slots. I don't play monks, but think that's how they work already for them.

This isn't those games, and it shouldn't implement that system. The current way of doing rotations is perfectly fine, the only issue is the combat loop for certain jobs aren't as rewarding as others/suffer from skill bloat. MCH/DRK are a few.

The combat loop in this game are not just the combos, but everything you weave in between combo actions. Like it or not, this is also a console game (I think more people actually play it on a PS4 than on PC) and some combos just take too many slots as it is right now. The Cross Bar UI has very limited space.

[HyoMinPark]

I want combos to be consolidated into a single button the way it works now on PvP. I play on a console with a gamepad and its too annoying to have all those buttons on screen (I use macros to manage some but its still too much for the console UI to handle.)

There is zero reason to use combo abilities out of order anyways other than accidentally messing up your click. The game has been about weaving ogcds in between attacks and positioning for a long time anyways.

Edit:
Another thing I would love to see is a bit of re-organization of abilities. Some basics should just be available earlier in the game for progression reasons. Warriors, for instance, should not have to wait until level 60+ to get their gap-closer.

The developers said that the consolidated skills was PvP only. They do not have plans to introduce it into PvE content.

Also, controllers have access to the Crossbar (16), Extended Cross (16), and the W-Cross (16) for hotbar space. If you’re using them, you shouldn’t have issues with space, nor need to use macros. Source: I played on PS3, PS4 for a year, and now on PC with a controller.

[Ogulbuk]

The developers said that the consolidated skills was PvP only. They do not have plans to introduce it into PvE content.

Also, controllers have access to the Crossbar (16), Extended Cross (16), and the W-Cross (16) for hotbar space. If you’re using them, you shouldn’t have issues with space, nor need to use macros. Source: I played on PS3, PS4 for a year, and now on PC with a controller.

That answered none of the questions I posed. It is obvious, though, your fingers are much more nimble than mine.

My questions, again:
Is there ever any reason to execute Step 2 or 3 of a combo without Step 1?
Would it bother you if *I* had that option? In fact, does it bother anyone I can do that with F&C and WT?

[MrKimper]

That answered none of the questions I posed. It is obvious, though, your fingers are much more nimble than mine.

My questions, again:
Is there ever any reason to execute Step 2 or 3 of a combo without Step 1?
Would it bother you if *I* had that option? In fact, does it bother anyone I can do that with F&C and WT?

No but that's part of the loop many combos split off into separate combos. Take Samurai for example, hakaze not only generates 5 kenki it can branch off into jinpu/shifu both that give a unique buff as well as kenki. So essentially without literally making the hotbars the exact same as they are for pvp(which would require dumbing down a lot of the weaving of the job by a lot) you'd have to hakaze before every combo anyway to efficiently generate kenki. I believe the same thing happens with DRG's heavy thrust combo.

You would need hakaze > jinpu > gekko + hakaze > shifu > kasha + hakaze > yukikaze on three separate buttons. I'm all for consolidating skills but I think a lot of it should just be bloated skills, like gap closers and such. Have them be the same skill but activate when you get within a certain range of an enemy.

You could argue that ninja and mch and MAYBE BLM would play the exact same but it would effect a lot of jobs.

[Ogulbuk]

DRG has 2 5 step combos, Heavy Thrust is part of rotations but not a step on any combo. I would not expect that ability to be added to any consolidated combo.

[HyoMinPark]

That answered none of the questions I posed. It is obvious, though, your fingers are much more nimble than mine.

That is unlikely. I just practice and play the game a lot, and I also utilize my options. The Extended Cross is extremely simple to use, and I would recommend you practice using it.

My questions, again:
Is there ever any reason to execute Step 2 or 3 of a combo without Step 1?
Would it bother you if *I* had that option? In fact, does it bother anyone I can do that with F&C and WT?

No, but branching combos exist. How would you map branching combos, like the ones PLD, WAR, DRK, SAM, NIN, and MNK have? NIN, for example, doesn’t always do 1-2-3 — their combo finisher has 3 options: Shadow Fang (DoT), Aoelin Edge (strict damage), and Armor Crush (Huton Refresh). How do you recommend consolidating something like this? MNK also doesn’t always follow the same 1-2-3, because they have priority skills that they have to keep up (Dragon Kick for Blunt Resistance, Demolish for DoT, and Twin Snakes for self-buff). What about for them? MrKimper already brought up SAM.


This system would also not work on jobs that don’t have combos — SMN and SCH are two of the biggest offenders (along with PLD) in terms of button bloat, but SMN/SCH do not have combos. They work off priority systems. Likewise, there are plenty of jobs that do not have button bloat at all (BRD and WHM are two examples of this). So do we have consolidation for half the jobs, and then none for those who probably need it more than WAR or NIN or MNK (like SMN/SCH, because pet actions take up a lot of space)?


As for your question 2, it would bother me if it was forced on everyone, which is likely.

Hardly a valid argument at this point since the developers regularly go back on things that they've said they wouldn't do as of late.

Somehow, they still haven’t gone back on forbidding certain third-party tools, though. Just because they renege on some things doesn’t mean that they will renege on everything.