Limited Expansion

[Shurrikhan]

That's...sadly confirmed it in the other fanfest. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/374470999?t=03h26m50s

"Time-to-win type content". So, gating/grind for the point of gating/grind, as the entire basis for a piece of content?

[Shurrikhan]

Eh I loved the Stormblood storyline I thought it was great.

It's a less a matter of "Was it sufficient?" than "Which would have been more lucrative for story?"

Personally, I'd have to sided with taking our time on the two distinct areas, rather than leaving them mostly shallow, given how small our budget apparently is.

[Laphael]

So we got the limited job, Blue Mage, which will continue to be limited throughout 5.x.
We got the limited races, Male only Ronso and Female only Viera.
We have limited equipment. Those new races won't even display many helmets within the game.
We have limited fields. No night time. No weather. Or maybe there will be some crazy weather effects; haven't shown it to us though.
It seems the Garlean story line is getting shelved... does that too count as limited?


FFXIV clearly has a limited budget.


I have an idea! Let's make another Eureka for 5.x

Does anybody ever think about Limited developement time and Limited ressources?
Yoshi can´t pull out his magic stick and create 3 new races, 6 new classes and content that everybody likes...

[Freyt]

Does anybody ever think about Limited developement time and Limited ressources?

I do think about limited development staff.

[Rastaban]

no more limit break in shb cause its limited

[Voltyblast]

"Time-to-win type content". So, gating/grind for the point of gating/grind, as the entire basis for a piece of content?

That's how they've been doing so far: content is so little and far in between that they HAVE to gate it behind time and grind. I mean capping tomes takes 4-5 days MAX by doing roulette once a day but you can do it in a day if you really want but it's not enough to even get a single piece of gear (minus accessories). Dailies takes less than 20 minutes a day to clear too and then it's a 24 hour reset.

Feels like Eureka is their best asset for this: huge amounts of time gates for very little rewards. The perfect combination!

[Imuka]

See: Every EX primal in Stormblood. Extended add phase to to discourage speed running.

It is not just about discouraging Speedruns.
I know what they try to achive and to be honest... and here comes the sad Part, it is listed under cheap and lazy Design Tricks for Game Makers.

If you strech an encounter, it fakes Players into seeing it as more Epic than it acctually is.
They feel like they slayed a big and mighty Boss Monster...even if it is not.
Because it is easy to trick Humans into thinking they achived something big if it takes more time to do so.

This something Ubisoft overexaggerated in The Division a lot, by making Bosses literally Bulletsponges, who ate up to 1000-2000 Bullets.
The encounters were not really that Epic, they just took around 10 Minutes of pushing Bullets into a Bulletsponge. Or for Boderlands, when on the max difficulty a single Boss eats up to 1000 Bullets per Player. The fight itself is nearly the same as on just Medium or Hard. The Boss only eats more Bullets and suddenly the Players see the fight as super epic.

This is also often used when Devs adjust the difficulty of Games and the first thing they do is make the HP Bar of a Boss 300% larger.
In the end, the Bosses are not really harder...they have just more HP and do more Damage.
But as soon as the Player is able to dodge every Enemy move it just is a longer fight.

Hell, this is sadly even the Goal of the whole Bluemage Skillquest.
To strech it to make it look bigger and larger as it is by adding RNG into the whole thing, instead of making it a Puzzle Quest.

What we got: Skill XY - Leviathan Extreme (no go and do this fight 20-40 times because RNG)

What I wished for: Burried under the Seas, hidden by water dark as the night itself, a Spell will be hidden behind the Monsters Tail.
(don't jump on me for that...I just made that up in 5 seconds, so it is a bit simple and sounds pretty cheesy like a D&D DM needed to make up a Puzzle on the fly while drinking something for a few seconds. ^^)

I hope, you get what I mean by that way. It makes a Player look at the Text, then get the Skill from Leviathan and feel like they are solving a Puzzle. Like they are truly searching for those Skills.
Of course Players will use Charts to be done as fast as possible, but others will really enjoy reading this Hint and say "I guess they mean Leviathan. Lets try that out with my Grand Company Commando".
The Arena itself again is a nice way to make this Class fun, because it is a Puzzle Game...locked behing mindless RNG Farm.

My Point is: Don't strech Content just to make it longer. Especially things that are also made for Players with a Casual Schedule, like the Bluemage.
Just because farming Skills for 30 Hours is something for a Player who can spend 5-6 Hours a day on the Game, does not mean, that it is made for Players who can maybe spend 4-5 Hours a week on the Game.

I see this with a Friend of mine. He can only play around 2-3 evenings a week for maybe 1-2 Hours with us, because of his Children, his Wife and their Dog.
It would take him Months to finish Eureka or the Bluemage.
And Yoshida sold FF14 back then as a Game that also aims at those Players by being an after Work MMO-RPG, by giving Stone Bonuses for playing a Roulette once per day, instead of 6 times on a Tuesday.
But now we see them strech the Game for the sake of streching it.

[Freyt]

Truthfully I finished Blue Mage in 3 days, including leveling my chocobo to 20 and acquiring all of the skills. It wouldn't have made much difference in time spent if I had to follow clues for a sure shot rather than grind a particular mob.

[Laphael]

My Point is: Don't strech Content just to make it longer. Especially things that are also made for Players with a Casual Schedule, like the Bluemage.
Just because farming Skills for 30 Hours is something for a Player who can spend 5-6 Hours a day on the Game, does not mean, that it is made for Players who can maybe spend 4-5 Hours a week on the Game.

I see this with a Friend of mine. He can only play around 2-3 evenings a week for maybe 1-2 Hours with us, because of his Children, his Wife and their Dog.
It would take him Months to finish Eureka or the Bluemage.
And Yoshida sold FF14 back then as a Game that also aims at those Players by being an after Work MMO-RPG, by giving Stone Bonuses for playing a Roulette once per day, instead of 6 times on a Tuesday.
But now we see them strech the Game for the sake of streching it.

But you are neglecting the point, that eureka is exactly not for your friend but for the Players with too much time in the game. Eureka is completely optional content.
That said, if he wanted, 2-3 evenings a week would be enough to play Eureka; he would be max lvl if he had just done his challenge log once a week.

[Imuka]

Longer games are better imo. Eureka is busy work. Some people like busy work. I like games.

I have to highly dissagree with that.
What you say implies that the Value of Media is equal to the Time invested into it.

Going from that we could say that "Star Wars: The last Jedi" (2h 33m) was a better Movie than "Star Wars: The Empire strikes back" (2h 7m) just because the last Jedi was a longer Movie.

I know it is your opinion, but I need to dissagree here, because saying this had send so many wrong Messages to Game Devs and even created Websites, that try to determine the Value of a Game by a Euro/Hour ratio.

And those make it look like Destiny or Anthem are better Games, than lets say Silent Hill 2 back then.
Just because SH2 was a 60 Euro Game for 8 Hours, while Anthem is a 100 Euro Game for around 50 Hours...or even more, depending on your will to Grind the Game.
Or that Metal Gear Solid 5 a Game that was extremly streched to make it extra long is a better Game, than Metal Gear Solid 4, a Game that was from my View very well paced and was pretty close to the optimal lenght for their Story.

But you are neglecting the point, that eureka is exactly not for your friend but for the Players with too much time in the game. Eureka is completely optional content.
That said, if he wanted, 2-3 evenings a week would be enough to play Eureka; he would be max lvl if he had just done his challenge log once a week.

And here come the 2 big Problems:
Eureka sells itself as niche Content while at the same time locking the Relic behind it and getting handled by the Devs like the new Main Content.
4 Releases in 12 Months...that is a Niche as Omega or the second Dungeon with every second Patch from my View.

Mostly, because it is not fun. When you have maybe 4-6 Hours to play per Week, what would you prefer:
Doing a bit of Savage and Dungeons and enjoy the little time you have or go into Eureka and farm Trash Mobs for 2 Hours on 3 Evenings?
If he would like to do that, he could just play BDO, because the Combat of that Game is at least fun, when you farm Trash Mobs.

And doing the Relic for all 15 Classes is something for the Players who can spend +100 Hours per Month for the Game.
But Players with a Family Life Time Schedule often have even Problems finishing a single one...or reach the max Level of one of the Eureka instances without turning this thing into a thight scheduled Job before the masses have moved on.

This is a Game that is supposed to be fun, not a second Job to keep yourself busy.