Limited Expansion

[Laphael]

So we got the limited job, Blue Mage, which will continue to be limited throughout 5.x.
We got the limited races, Male only Ronso and Female only Viera.
We have limited equipment. Those new races won't even display many helmets within the game.
We have limited fields. No night time. No weather. Or maybe there will be some crazy weather effects; haven't shown it to us though.
It seems the Garlean story line is getting shelved... does that too count as limited?


FFXIV clearly has a limited budget.


I have an idea! Let's make another Eureka for 5.x

Does anybody ever think about Limited developement time and Limited ressources?
Yoshi can´t pull out his magic stick and create 3 new races, 6 new classes and content that everybody likes...

[Freyt]

Does anybody ever think about Limited developement time and Limited ressources?

I do think about limited development staff.

[Rastaban]

no more limit break in shb cause its limited

[Freyt]

Truthfully I finished Blue Mage in 3 days, including leveling my chocobo to 20 and acquiring all of the skills. It wouldn't have made much difference in time spent if I had to follow clues for a sure shot rather than grind a particular mob.

[Imuka]

Longer games are better imo. Eureka is busy work. Some people like busy work. I like games.

I have to highly dissagree with that.
What you say implies that the Value of Media is equal to the Time invested into it.

Going from that we could say that "Star Wars: The last Jedi" (2h 33m) was a better Movie than "Star Wars: The Empire strikes back" (2h 7m) just because the last Jedi was a longer Movie.

I know it is your opinion, but I need to dissagree here, because saying this had send so many wrong Messages to Game Devs and even created Websites, that try to determine the Value of a Game by a Euro/Hour ratio.

And those make it look like Destiny or Anthem are better Games, than lets say Silent Hill 2 back then.
Just because SH2 was a 60 Euro Game for 8 Hours, while Anthem is a 100 Euro Game for around 50 Hours...or even more, depending on your will to Grind the Game.
Or that Metal Gear Solid 5 a Game that was extremly streched to make it extra long is a better Game, than Metal Gear Solid 4, a Game that was from my View very well paced and was pretty close to the optimal lenght for their Story.

But you are neglecting the point, that eureka is exactly not for your friend but for the Players with too much time in the game. Eureka is completely optional content.
That said, if he wanted, 2-3 evenings a week would be enough to play Eureka; he would be max lvl if he had just done his challenge log once a week.

And here come the 2 big Problems:
Eureka sells itself as niche Content while at the same time locking the Relic behind it and getting handled by the Devs like the new Main Content.
4 Releases in 12 Months...that is a Niche as Omega or the second Dungeon with every second Patch from my View.

Mostly, because it is not fun. When you have maybe 4-6 Hours to play per Week, what would you prefer:
Doing a bit of Savage and Dungeons and enjoy the little time you have or go into Eureka and farm Trash Mobs for 2 Hours on 3 Evenings?
If he would like to do that, he could just play BDO, because the Combat of that Game is at least fun, when you farm Trash Mobs.

And doing the Relic for all 15 Classes is something for the Players who can spend +100 Hours per Month for the Game.
But Players with a Family Life Time Schedule often have even Problems finishing a single one...or reach the max Level of one of the Eureka instances without turning this thing into a thight scheduled Job before the masses have moved on.

This is a Game that is supposed to be fun, not a second Job to keep yourself busy.

[Laphael]

And here come the 2 big Problems:
Eureka sells itself as niche Content while at the same time locking the Relic behind it and getting handled by the Devs like the new Main Content.
4 Releases in 12 Months...that is a Niche as Omega or the second Dungeon with every second Patch from my View.

Mostly, because it is not fun. When you have maybe 4-6 Hours to play per Week, what would you prefer:
Doing a bit of Savage and Dungeons and enjoy the little time you have or go into Eureka and farm Trash Mobs for 2 Hours on 3 Evenings?
If he would like to do that, he could just play BDO, because the Combat of that Game is at least fun, when you farm Trash Mobs.

And doing the Relic for all 15 Classes is something for the Players who can spend +100 Hours per Month for the Game.
But Players with a Family Life Time Schedule often have even Problems finishing a single one...or reach the max Level of one of the Eureka instances without turning this thing into a thight scheduled Job before the masses have moved on.

This is a Game that is supposed to be fun, not a second Job to keep yourself busy.

1. Problem:
Believe it or not, but Eureka relic is faster than Heavensward relic on release. BOTH are completely optional and both can be done casually and also both are time sinks if you want more than 1.

2. Problem:
Fun is subjectiv for everyone. If you find a special content not fun, dont do it.
And you dont have to kill Trash for 2 Hours in Eureka, you can kill some mobs for challenge log, then do a fate that pops, then do some bunny fates and then leave after 1 hour and still do a dungeon or Raid.

[Imuka]

And you dont have to kill Trash for 2 Hours in Eureka, you can kill some mobs for challenge log, then do a fate that pops, then do some bunny fates and then leave after 1 hour and still do a dungeon or Raid.

I know that because I once forced myself into that sorry...crap.

Bunny Fate...doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...etc...

This was basicly what we did for 2 Hours and nothing else.
Mindlessly running back and forth between a Fate and the Bunny Fate.
And if that one Member of my Guild would have not carried me with her Chocobo, I would not even reached any Fate outside of the Bunny Fate. So I could just stand around for 7-8 Minutes till the Players return from some place on the Map.

Is this modern MMO Design in 2018-2019? I have seen Games with more Content made in 72 Game Jams made by 4 Design Students.
Is this the amazing and groundbreacking Gameplay and Gamedesign he always promises on Stage? Is this the pinnacle of MMO Gamedesign that he likes to call Eureka?
Is this the Content he calls "Something that was never experienced in a MMO-RPG before?

It sounds more like a Treadmill created by Activision to make Players spend Money on the Ingame Shop of the Game...and if we would talk about Activision, they would sell us the Relic by now for 9,99€ in the Store.
And Activision is nutorious for streching everything as much as possible to make it a hassle, so that Players buy the things from the Store with real Money.

And I do not hate Eureka, but I dislike how Players defend this thing with every straw they find and call it a Niche Content while nearly everybody can see how it aims to be a thing for the masses.
"Its not shallow...you can do...*states several activities based on using exploits in Eureka*.".
"It is not made for everybody, while at the same time being sold by the Devs for literally everybody", because Yoshida is obsessed with the Idea that everybody loves Trash Mob and Fate Farm. He was told the opposite several times by the Feedback of the Diadem...and still he can't drop his believes that everybody loves Fates and Trash Mob Farm...because a Part of the Community wants some FF11 flair in the Game.
Which would be nice, if this flair of 11 would come with some of the depth of 11 and not the depth of a paddling pool for Children.
I would have liked it if there would be some of that depth. One of my old Raid Members told me a lot of her time in 11 and all those things there were and it sounded like a lot of fun. The only thing she said when we were in Eureka was "This is not how 11 was, not even close. Please don't think that this is what we had done for several years. This is without any of the real depth of 11".

"You can easily do it, when you get a few people of your Guild to carry you through the whole thing. It is fun when you reach max Level.".
A Game needs to be fun, as soon as you play it, not after 40 Hours or earlier when people carry you through a large "unfun Gameplay Zone".
A Game should not feel good as soon as you are done with the things in the Game and feel free of the hassle of a mindless Task, that underchallenges every Player in the Game.
It is not fun being carried around by a few high Level Players like a bag of Potatoes. It is not now and it will never be.
You struggle with the Fate Monster and get one shotted, while the rest of the Party can just stand in any AOE and only lose 1-2% of their health per hit.
You do nearly no damage and struggle with the Monsters and the rest of the Party is yawning into their Headsets, while they play FEH, FFBE, AL or Pokemon on their Phones while using just 3-5 Skills while not even really looking at the Game.

It is a Niche Content...made with the goal, that everybody should join the Niche Content Trip.
Look how many people are AFK in that place...playing on their Phone, watching Netflix, reading or posting here or on Reddit. Ebough to create dozens of Posts here complaining about 2/3 of the whole Instance sitting AFK next to the Fate Train.
Why are those Players in Eureka if you can clearly see that all of them do not enjoy it and prefer playing Mobile Games or watch Netflix.
They prefer doing other things while being inside...but still feel like they need to play this Content otherwise they would not play it.

This is exactly what damaged Savage in Stormblood. Turning Niche Content into a thing for everybody.
In ARR raiding was made for a specific Type of Player...those who enjoy playing the Game on a high Level, focusing on DPS, maxing out and give 110%.
Now with SB they Bar was dropped so low, that it feels like absolute entry difficulty...to "Make everybody go raiding.".

The Raiders now feel underchallenged by far, the people who back then did not going for Raids, don't do it now, despite a lowered difficulty Bar. Because the difficulty was not the only reason why they were not into raiding.
They achived nothing by making this Niche Content for everybody.

I am not into Ultimate Raiding...would I like to see the fight at least once? Yes.
Would I want the Devs turning Ultimate from a niche Content into something for everybody...no, because then for me it would lose it's "Niche Content" Status.
You can't be a Niche Content and at the same time being made for everybody.
EA tried that with Dead Space 3, by making it more and more made for the broad Market, while Horror Games themself are a Niche Market...and the damage to the IP was done.
They ecpected impossible Sales Numbers from the Game and the Game itself was just bad compared to the first Game. A Game that was not super creative and inovative, but took the good things of other Horror Games and put them together in a enjoyable Horror Game.

[Fland]

And you dont have to kill Trash for 2 Hours in Eureka, you can kill some mobs for challenge log, then do a fate that pops, then do some bunny fates and then leave after 1 hour and still do a dungeon or Raid.

That's the issue with SB relic tho. You have to spend some time with just in Eureka to complete the relic then do other contents.
In HW, you can do your relic WHILE doing other contents.

[Seraphor]

It's pretty disingenuous to say it has 'limited weather' because it's always day, when they've actually implemented an entirely new dynamic weather system where we gradually bring tge night back to the eternal day, and the sky changes for each player based on story progression.

[Areic]

Lets just word every sentence so we can throw "limited" on it to get a point across.

My warrior is limited, he can't use a dark knight sword.

My mounts are limited, they can't swim underwater

My blacksmith is limited, he can't cook food.

See what I did there?