Please no more Eureka!

[Reynhart]

Have you considered that's because they specifically wanted to push this content that has failed on both of their previous attempts?

No, because I actually read what they said and that their purpose was to create a content dedicated to the relic, and not put the relic there as an afterthough like so many people claim.

Just because they stopped doing it doesn't necessarily mean that they will never do it again. Just as much as it can mean they will never do it again.

If I were you, I wouldn't help my hopes high for now, because they said that putting the relic as a side reward for basic content was not very interesting and had reached its limits.

But alas, despite all your claims, Eureka is only worth it because the Relic is exclusive to it...

As is any content in this game, only worth it because of its reward...What a shock !

At least, that is what is being suggested by the vehement that you try and defend Relic being a Eureka exclusive and try and find reasons why previous Relic design choices (I.e. Multiple ways to work towards the same goal, be it grinding Tomestones, Crystal Sands or even the Crafted Items in HW's relic that can be obtained via Grand Company Seals these days) cannot function.

That's the thing, I'm not the one saying past iterations were becoming a problem. Yoshi-P is. And you're still only advocating to put the weapon away from Eureka just because you don't like the content, not because you care about people having option to obtain the gear they like.

[Chalbee]

This thread is just going in circles for 69 pages. Some people like Eureka, some people hate it. We don't know how many of each there are, and it doesn't matter because the Devs seem dead-set on this being the new template for relics. Those of us who hate Eureka either have to suck it up and do it anyway, or just say goodbye to having relics, or maybe even find another MMO.

Personally, I've chosen to say goodbye to relics. It's unfortunate, but as Lamdafish said a way back (or was it a different Eureka thread, who knows?) To get the Savage weapon, you have to do Savage, and now to get the relic weapon, you have to do whatever horrible nonsense they've cooked up for the relic. I hope they go back to the old way, or at least find a compromise between the old way and the new, but it's doubtful.

[TaiyoShikasu]

This thread is just going in circles for 69 pages.

Nice.

10charnyah.

[Kalise]

No, because I actually read what they said and that their purpose was to create a content dedicated to the relic, and not put the relic there as an afterthough like so many people claim.

Have you ever considered that maybe they wanted to create content dedicated to the relic so as to be able push this twice failed content by attaching it to some other niche content that already had a following?

Given that not everything that the devs say ends up being congruent with what we actually end up receiving. An example was when they said that BLU was a job designed for solo play and unsuitable for parties and we get a BLU that is literally the most party dependent job in the game.

If I were you, I wouldn't help my hopes high for now, because they said that putting the relic as a side reward for basic content was not very interesting and had reached its limits.

Which is a shame. Especially since in Eureka the relic was a side-reward for basic content, given it was merely just FATE farming and Light/Logos farming. Just with new janky colour wheel and stuff!

As is any content in this game, only worth it because of its reward...What a shock !

Yes, but you're making out that only the RELIC is a reward enough to justify Eureka and that no-other reward in the entire game would have the same draw.

That's the thing, I'm not the one saying past iterations were becoming a problem. Yoshi-P is. And you're still only advocating to put the weapon away from Eureka just because you don't like the content, not because you care about people having option to obtain the gear they like.

You're the one currently in this thread defending Relic exclusivity. Yoshi-P is not.

Also, while the basis for my argument stems from me not liking the content, the fact remains that I'm actually pushing for inclusivity.

Unlike you who has already admitted that you only cared about the Relic because it was tied to content you liked. Thus are using that fact to try and keep the Relic exclusive to your preferred content.

I'm trying to get the Relic back to being more widely available, so that not only would it have literally no impact on you whatsoever, as you'd still be able to gain the Relic through your preferred content (In addition I'm also advocating for MORE REWARDS for you to get via your preferred content), but then OTHER people (Yes, myself included), would also be able to gain the Relic through their preferred content.

Which would ultimately mean, fewer Leechers within content due to more people actively choosing to be in the particular content rather than being forced there by Relic grinds (As there are plenty of examples of leechers in both Eureka as well as in Trials when they were mandatory for Relic progress)

So, again, while you're advocating from an entirely selfish point of view, because the Relic happens to be exclusive to your preferred content. I'm advocating for a new system that doesn't force specific content, this is notably different to previous relics which did have specific content in some stages. Meaning that all players of the game can grind out for their Relic and don't have to go leech from a particular type of content.

This is in addition to also advocating that your preferred content gets additional rewards in exchange for the "End Goal" no longer being just the Relic. Even if I personally would never end up attaining these rewards due to not liking the content.

[Lambdafish]

Yes, but you're making out that only the RELIC is a reward enough to justify Eureka and that no-other reward in the entire game would have the same draw.

It's not, but saying this misses the point that was made extremely clear in the dev interview that Reynhart is referencing (I would highly suggest giving it a read if you haven't because it renders a lot of what you are saying factually incorrect). Eureka was designed as content to house the relic, relic was not an afterthought reward to entice people to do Eureka. Talking about other rewards having the same draw is irrelevant, because it was planned to be relic from the outset. Yes, other rewards would draw people to Eureka, the ozma mount has been a popular carrot, and I have seen a tonne of people glamming the hydatos armor. These are all rewards that take time and effort to get, and are not relic.

Eureka doesn't NEED Relic, but it was concepted with relic in mind. That was the devs conscious choice, both can survive without the other, especially now that the foundations of Eureka have been established, but the core of Eureka is about relic.

I'm trying to get the Relic back to being more widely available, so that not only would it have literally no impact on you whatsoever, as you'd still be able to gain the Relic through your preferred content (In addition I'm also advocating for MORE REWARDS for you to get via your preferred content), but then OTHER people (Yes, myself included), would also be able to gain the Relic through their preferred content.

I'm going to be honest, reasoning aside, your idea of how relic should be handled is extremely bland. I never finished the 3.X relic because I just got tired of the monotony and it just wasn't a fun experience to run content I had already done on repeat while watching netflix on the other screen. Eureka on the other hand, while it did have that monotony, gave me new content to engage in, with a lot more content like logograms, lockboxes and other rewards making the journey to completing the relic feel so much more rewarding and feel a lot shorter.

If you can somehow replicate that feeling that Eureka achieved in your idea, sure I'd be ok with that, but what you currently have is "go tomestone grind" which people are already sick of after 6 years of doing nothing but that.

[Reynhart]

Have you ever considered that maybe they wanted to create content dedicated to the relic so as to be able push this twice failed content by attaching it to some other niche content that already had a following?

I really love when people rather build their conspiracy theory than taking information for what they are.

BLU that is literally the most party dependent job in the game.

Strange because I'm pretty sure every other job needs a party to clear even the low level dungeons, and are pretty encouraged to be in a group just to reach max level quickly.

Especially since in Eureka the relic was a side-reward for basic content, given it was merely just FATE farming and Light/Logos farming.

Sure, FFXIV has so many content focused on chaining mobs, exploring zones, choosing specifics targets for specific rewards, dropping in and out of parties...

Yes, but you're making out that only the RELIC is a reward enough to justify Eureka and that no-other reward in the entire game would have the same draw.

Yes, the relic is the only reward to justify the relic content. i.e, I wouldn't grind for hours to just get a mount. Exactly like mounts, titles and achievements would probably not keep Savage alive for very long.

You're the one currently in this thread defending Relic exclusivity. Yoshi-P is not.

That's what "making a content dedicated to the relic means".

Also, while the basis for my argument stems from me not liking the content, the fact remains that I'm actually pushing for inclusivity.

No, you're pushing for a bypass. You would be pushing for inclusivity is you asked the same concept for other weapons too. After all, maybe some people want a nice looking Alpha weapon but don't like Savage. Or an Empyrean weapon but they find HoH boring. There's no reason for the relic to be the only weapon to be spread out of its dedicated content.

Unlike you who has already admitted that you only cared about the Relic because it was tied to content you liked.

Silly me for claiming I wouldn't do a content I don't like. It's so much smarter to punish oneself when playing a video game that's supposed to be "fun".

Thus are using that fact to try and keep the Relic exclusive to your preferred content.

No, trying to keep the Relic exclusive to...its dedicated content. The main difference is that if I didn't like Eureka, I would still advocate to keep it here, because making the relic a glorified tome weapon is boring.

I'm trying to get the Relic back to being more widely available, so that not only would it have literally no impact on you whatsoever, as you'd still be able to gain the Relic through your preferred content

Well, it would because it would spread relic grinders into separate content, making less people do each of them. The fact that con-Eureka players went in Eureka provided criticism (more constructive than "Wa wa delete") and definitely helped improve the last installments. If those people would be able to skip it, they would have said nothing.

[Kalise]

It's not, but saying this misses the point that was made extremely clear in the dev interview that Reynhart is referencing (I would highly suggest giving it a read if you haven't because it renders a lot of what you are saying factually incorrect). Eureka was designed as content to house the relic, relic was not an afterthought reward to entice people to do Eureka.

Yeah, but I can also point to interviews and evidence of devs saying BLU is a solo job, not suitable for parties.

Yet, their implementation of it speaks contrary to all of their interviews.

Like, even the fact that within the content to house the relic, the relic is a side-quest. The main story in Eureka is Krile's quests about figuring out how the island moved across the world, what the deal is with her grandfather that WoL is having flashbacks about, what that hooded dude is doing that WoL keeps seeing.

With every now and then, there being a small aside where she goes "Oh yeah, Gerolt wanted to talk to you about something" to which he starts to be... Some sort of comedic relief? Where he goes on about "You need to go find... Stuff. Then I can make a strong weapon. Maybe. I dunno lel xD Look, I have a kettle!"

Talking about other rewards having the same draw is irrelevant, because it was planned to be relic from the outset.

It is not irrelevant. Since, in case you were not aware, this thread was created entirely about FUTURE "Eureka" type content.

Literally the first line of the OP is:

Having heard they plan something like Eureka in 5.0 i just had to throw my 2 cents in.

All these discussions around "Eureka" are not talking about retro-actively changing Eureka itself, but instead talking about future "Eureka" content.

Eureka doesn't NEED Relic, but it was concepted with relic in mind. That was the devs conscious choice, both can survive without the other, especially now that the foundations of Eureka have been established, but the core of Eureka is about relic.

This literally just supports my argument.

If both pieces of content can thrive without one another, and the foundations of Eureka content that people don't all hate as is the case with Diadem. Then there exists the possibility to then separate the Relic from "Eureka" content and allow multiple ways to progress on the Relic, just like in previous ones, while allowing "Eureka" content to thrive off its own merit and rewards.

Which is what people are asking for. Not "Let us grind for the Physeos Weapons from Duties"

Physeos Weapons can stay exclusive to Eureka. That's fine. The argument being made is that some people wish that FUTURE Relics are not exclusive to the "Eureka" type content.

I'm going to be honest, reasoning aside, your idea of how relic should be handled is extremely bland.

I'm sure someone could come up with a more interesting solution if they weren't trying to argue with people who feel that Relics should remain exclusive to their preferred content.

Tome grind, is not the best alternative, however, it's a very easy example of a solution to allow multiple avenues to work towards the same Relic, so no-one feels forced into running content they dislike for the large grind that is a Relic weapon.

Like, if I was to try and think of a more interesting solution, I'd probably come up with something more akin to 3.X's Crystal Sand. Where you had multiple different items from different pieces of content that you could go out and farm in order to obtain the Crystal Sands.

Take an idea like that, and flesh it out with some creativity, such as giving bonuses to said item collection rate when doing the most recent Dungeons/Trials/Eureka zones/Raids.

Eureka on the other hand, while it did have that monotony, gave me new content to engage in, with a lot more content like logograms, lockboxes and other rewards making the journey to completing the relic feel so much more rewarding and feel a lot shorter.

The reason that Eureka relic felt shorter, is because it was. It has far fewer steps than previous relics as well as most of the steps also able to gather materials necessary for additional Relics on other jobs (I.e. If you're doing FATE Trains for the Boss items you need, you will end up getting excess Crystals/Light that you use on other Relics)

Though, this isn't to say that you wouldn't still be able to have these feelings if the Relic became progressable through multiple ways, since, given that one of the things being advocated is that you're still able to progress it through "Eureka" content it means you CAN still do this "New" content and farm up your lockboxes and Logos while you work on your Relic.

Just, other people can, if they prefer, then also farm Duties if they wished. That's the thing here, I'm advocating for multiple avenues so that people can pick their preferred way to grind. I'm not advocating to make "Eureka" content no longer being an option to work on the Relic, merely that it's not the ONLY way to work on the Relic.

I really love when people rather build their conspiracy theory than taking information for what they are.

When information is contrary to implementation, I'm partial to second guess said information.

Strange because I'm pretty sure every other job needs a party to clear even the low level dungeons, and are pretty encouraged to be in a group just to reach max level quickly.

I'm pretty sure that no other job needs to party in order to complete their JOB QUESTS.

Nor does any other job need to party in order to GET THEIR SKILLS.

Other jobs are "Encouraged" to group to level. And need a party to clear low level dungeons at level.

But they're not REQUIRED. Other jobs can level just fine alone, they learn all their skills alone, all of their job quests are easily completed alone. For soloing low level dungeons, other jobs are in the same boat as BLU, which is that they need to outlevel them in order to do so.

Hence, BLU is the most party orientated job in the game, since some of the features of the job that every other job can do solo, BLU requires a party to accomplish.

Sure, FFXIV has so many content focused on chaining mobs, exploring zones, choosing specifics targets for specific rewards, dropping in and out of parties...

Chaining mobs existed before they added in alternate ways to gain experience that were much, much better.

Exploring zones... Is literally what the Sightseeing Log is all about.

Choosing specific targets for specific rewards... You mean like Hunts?

Dropping in and out of parties... Sounds like Rank A and S Hunts. Also, sounds a lot like old FATE Train experience grinds that existed before they made crap like Duties and PotD so much more efficient.

Yes, the relic is the only reward to justify the relic content. i.e, I wouldn't grind for hours to just get a mount. Exactly like mounts, titles and achievements would probably not keep Savage alive for very long.

Interesting that you've changed your tune on this over time.

Used to be that you exclaimed that the Relic didn't need to be the end reward for Eureka just that it made sense to put grind reward at the end of grind content...

Now it's "Relic of GTFO"

Also, again, it's not as if I'm suggesting removing the ability to grind "Eureka" content for the Relic. In fact, I'm suggesting ADDING more stuff to grind for in "Eureka" content in addition to being able to grind for the Relic.

There's no reason for the relic to be the only weapon to be spread out of its dedicated content.

Except for the fact that in previous Relics you were able to progress on it with multiple types of content?

Except for the fact that unlike Alpha or Empyrean weapons, the Relic is a large grind throughout an entire expansion?

Silly me for claiming I wouldn't do a content I don't like. It's so much smarter to punish oneself when playing a video game that's supposed to be "fun".

Yet you defend with zeal the notion that people whom have grown accustom to working on the Relic with content they like when asking for the Relic to once again being able to be worked on with content they like are somehow not allowed this?

Even if their idea still has literally no impact on you being able to do content you like in order to access the Relic that you don't care about unless it's conveniently placed into content you like (While these people have cared about the Relic even when they had to do content they didn't like, some have even forced their way through Eureka to get the Relic despite not liking that content)

No, trying to keep the Relic exclusive to...its dedicated content. The main difference is that if I didn't like Eureka, I would still advocate to keep it here, because making the relic a glorified tome weapon is boring.

Yeah, sure. It's easy to play the Martyr when it happens that it's not the case that you even need to be in the situation where your argument would be pushing for a reward you care about being in content you don't care about.

I mean, you've already stated that 1) You only cared about the Relic because it was in content you liked and 2) That you like Eureka.

So, claiming that you're somehow a saint because if the Relic (Which you don't care about) was in content you didn't care about that you'd still be pushing for that exclusivity doesn't mean a great deal.

Well, it would because it would spread relic grinders into separate content, making less people do each of them. The fact that con-Eureka players went in Eureka provided criticism (more constructive than "Wa wa delete") and definitely helped improve the last installments. If those people would be able to skip it, they would have said nothing.

Do you have proof that Con-Eureka players provided constructive feedback that lead to the improvements? That it wasn't just Pro-Eureka players that was providing that feedback?

Also, "Spreading grinders into separate content" suggests that you believe that Dungeons, Trials and Raids are dead because all the Relic Grinders are in Eureka...

Or is it that you believe that Eureka is poor enough content that without the Con-Eureka players forcing themselves into the content purely for the Relic that "Eureka" content would be dead?

The thread of spreading grinders too thinly only has merit if, "Eureka" content was poorly received so that only a tiny number of players actually enjoyed it or if there existed additional types of "Overworld-esk" grind locations that was similar to "Eureka" content that was relevant to grinding the Relic.

If however, alternate means of grinding was duties... Then how would it be much different from now, where duty grinders grind duties and Eureka grinders grind Eureka?

You know, except for their being fewer leechers in Eureka that are AFK waiting for NM spawns instead of actually helping spawn them, or grouping with people to chain enemies/farm light/logos...

[Reynhart]

When information is contrary to implementation, I'm partial to second guess said information.

Except that it's not. Eureka is exactly what it was advertised to be, and was created for the reason they claimed it to be. A content where the main goal is to build the relic, not targeted at everyone.

The main story in Eureka is Krile's quests about figuring out how the island moved across the world, what the deal is with her grandfather that WoL is having flashbacks about, what that hooded dude is doing that WoL keeps seeing.

Yes, because, they learned back in ARR that putting a story behind something that requires dedication will only make people complain. If you're only interested in the story, you just need to level up, do the quests, and you're done. Although, to be fair, I'm surprised they put the epiloque after the Arsenal.

I'm pretty sure that no other job needs to party in order to complete their JOB QUESTS.

Neither does BLU.

Nor does any other job need to party in order to GET THEIR SKILLS.

No, but they need them to get their gear, to reach their full potential. None of the EX skills are really required for BLU dedicated content.

For soloing low level dungeons, other jobs are in the same boat as BLU, which is that they need to outlevel them in order to do so.

Except BLU don't need to outlevel them.

Hence, BLU is the most party orientated job in the game, since some of the features of the job that every other job can do solo, BLU requires a party to accomplish.

What can other jobs do solo that BLU can't ?

Chaining mobs existed before they added in alternate ways to gain experience that were much, much better.

Not in XIV.

Exploring zones... Is literally what the Sightseeing Log is all about.

Sure, flying over everything to use an emote at specific points. Totally the same.

Choosing specific targets for specific rewards... You mean like Hunts?

Right, like hunts. Like this A rank that gives seals and tomestones...and that other A rank that gives...seals and tomestones...or that other A rank...that gives...seals and tomestones. Very strategic choices.

Also, sounds a lot like old FATE Train experience grinds that existed before they made crap like Duties and PotD so much more efficient.

Except that FATE are not tied with what the people do, so there was no train management or community.

Used to be that you exclaimed that the Relic didn't need to be the end reward for Eureka just that it made sense to put grind reward at the end of grind content...

The relic don't need to be the end reward for completing Eureka. It needs to be the end reward for grinding for hours aside of completing it. Even though Eureka was created for the relic, it's not just the relic, since you can do it without touching your weapon, but the grinding inside it needs the relic as a reward. Would you gather hundreds of crystals and farm lights for hours for a title ? Or a mount ?

Except for the fact that in previous Relics you were able to progress on it with multiple types of content?

Yeah, and that was considered a problem by the dev team, remember ?

Except for the fact that unlike Alpha or Empyrean weapons, the Relic is a large grind throughout an entire expansion?

It doesn't matter. Relic asks one type of dedication that people might not want to put. I might not want to put time in repeating HoH over and over again in the chance to gain enough power to create the Empyrean, especially since I might not have finished PotD, so I might not even enter HoH, or suffer through Savage for the end weapon. Why shouldn't I be offered more options, then ?

Yet you defend with zeal the notion that people whom have grown accustom to working on the Relic with content they like when asking for the Relic to once again being able to be worked on with content they like are somehow not allowed this?

On that specific topic, what I defend with zeal is "Don't like it, don't do it". Suffering through Eureka because you wanted the relic doesn't put you in a noble position to attack me because I wouldn't do the same.

Yeah, sure. It's easy to play the Martyr when it happens that it's not the case that you even need to be in the situation where your argument would be pushing for a reward you care about being in content you don't care about.

Funny, it's almost like all the people that where perfectly fine with the relic being tied to Eureka, and Eureka not being for everyone years ago and backpedal heavily now because they claim that relic should be for all.

I mean, you've already stated that 1) You only cared about the Relic because it was in content you liked and 2) That you like Eureka.
So, claiming that you're somehow a saint because if the Relic (Which you don't care about) was in content you didn't care about that you'd still be pushing for that exclusivity doesn't mean a great deal.

Yes, and I also stated that you simply shouldn't do a content you don't like. So, connecting the dots should easily gives the conclusion that if I don't like the next relic content, I would simply don't do it and not create threads and threads about how the relic should be made more available. I also suggested that exclusivity is important because otherwise content might be dead on arrival, and that tome gear is too powerful because it negates the weight of dungeons rewards, primal weapons and even raid gear. So, trust me, I'll never advocate to make important gear available for simply running daily roulettes over and over again like you could in ARR and HW.

Also, "Spreading grinders into separate content" suggests that you believe that Dungeons, Trials and Raids are dead because all the Relic Grinders are in Eureka...Or is it that you believe that Eureka is poor enough content that without the Con-Eureka players forcing themselves into the content purely for the Relic that "Eureka" content would be dead?

So kind of you to only give me two (totally unbiased, of course) options. But it's neither. It's simply that having two content with the same mindset with split part of your playerbase with that same mindset. And you know you can still like Eureka even if you prefer another type of grinding content, right ? But if your goal is shared between the two, you will mostly do the content you prefer.

The thread of spreading grinders too thinly only has merit if, "Eureka" content was poorly received

"only...if"...well, if you say so, it must be true, I guess. Or simply because "heavy grinding" being a niche activity, it already covers only a small part of the playerbase, and splitting them would only make each content having, at best, half the population it has now, on top of having to balance the two options so that none of them is heavily unfair.

If however, alternate means of grinding was duties... Then how would it be much different from now, where duty grinders grind duties and Eureka grinders grind Eureka?

It would be different because even some Eureka grinders would switch to the fast food, generic appeal of duties, since it requires no organisation, no communication and no progression at all.

You know, except for their being fewer leechers in Eureka that are AFK waiting for NM spawns instead of actually helping spawn them, or grouping with people to chain enemies/farm light/logos...

You would have less people period. Not just leechers.

[Kalise]

Except that it's not. Eureka is exactly what it was advertised to be, and was created for the reason they claimed it to be. A content where the main goal is to build the relic, not targeted at everyone.

Except, even in Eureka, the Relic takes a back seat. Being just tossed in as Krile's afterthought to the main questline of "Go talk to Gerolt about something"

Yes, because, they learned back in ARR that putting a story behind something that requires dedication will only make people complain. If you're only interested in the story, you just need to level up, do the quests, and you're done. Although, to be fair, I'm surprised they put the epiloque after the Arsenal.

Well, apparently they didn't learn particularly quickly, given that HW's Relic had a story behind it and required dedication...

You might argue that the story wasn't particularly great, but it was still there. Behind the gate of the Relic grind.

Neither does BLU.

Unless you want to finish the level 50 Quest, which requires you to learn Glower, which is only sourced from unsoloable content (Outside maybe the Alexandrite treasure chests that occasionally feature a Cyclops... Though I've yet to see if they cast "Glower")

No, but they need them to get their gear, to reach their full potential. None of the EX skills are really required for BLU dedicated content.

BLU needs Garuda for their only Wind aspected skill.

BLU also needs to do Stone Vigil (Hard) or The Steps of Faith in order to get Diamondback which is necessary for some of the Masked Carnivale stages.

Also, no, other jobs don't need parties for gear. You can solo craft high item level gear as well as solo grind out Tomes of Genesis (Such as by going into Eureka and leeching from NM's) to buy Tome gear.

Except BLU don't need to outlevel them.

Actually they do.

Unless you can go show me a BLU that is able to solo their way through Aurum Vale to learn Glower. Heck, go in as an unsync'd level 50 (Outleveling the dungeon) and still try and solo up to Glower.

What can other jobs do solo that BLU can't ?

Their job quests. Again, BLU needs a party to go learn Glower to do their level 50 job quest.

Not in XIV.

I certainly recall chaining mobs back in 2.0. Better than sitting on my hands while waiting for FATEs to respawn.

Sure, flying over everything to use an emote at specific points. Totally the same.

As opposed to what in Eureka? Exploring to find...? An Elemental Fairy thing for a buff?

Also, in ARR the Sightseeing Log had you decipher clues and find specific places at specific times/weather and do specific emotes (Rather than HW/SB logs that were mostly the same emote)

There's also treasure maps in non-Eureka content, where you "Explore" to find the location.

Right, like hunts. Like this A rank that gives seals and tomestones...and that other A rank that gives...seals and tomestones...or that other A rank...that gives...seals and tomestones. Very strategic choices.

It's still a mechanic that has existed in XIV forever. Sure, they could have expanded on it. But it still exists. It's not like it's a brand new thing that Eureka has done that has never been seen in the game before ever.

Except that FATE are not tied with what the people do, so there was no train management or community.

I remember there being train management and community. I remember it being pretty much exactly the same as it occurs in Eureka. Only without also needing someone to maintain a Tracker for the instance to see what FATEs can be spawned.

The relic don't need to be the end reward for completing Eureka. It needs to be the end reward for grinding for hours aside of completing it. Even though Eureka was created for the relic, it's not just the relic, since you can do it without touching your weapon, but the grinding inside it needs the relic as a reward. Would you gather hundreds of crystals and farm lights for hours for a title ? Or a mount ?

Sure, I'd farm a ton for a title or a mount.

So long as the grind wasn't total trash.

But then again, I also farmed for The Insane title in WoW, I farmed dungeons/raids endlessly for 0.1% drop chance mounts (Over the course of literal years). I farmed every faction rep to not only the required exalted, but to 999/1000 max for simply an achievement.

I'm farming MGP to buy cosmetics and mounts from Gold Saucer. I'm farming out 2.0 and 3.0 relics for just Glamour. I'm planning of farming DF on PLD/DRK for their mounts too, despite me not particularly liking them as jobs to play.

I grind for plenty of things. So long as the grind isn't total garbage, I'm fairly open to rewards.

Also again, I'm not advocating of removing the ability to farm for the relic in "Eureka" content.

Yeah, and that was considered a problem by the dev team, remember ?

And I'm arguing that it need not be considered a problem, remember?

It doesn't matter. Relic asks one type of dedication that people might not want to put. I might not want to put time in repeating HoH over and over again in the chance to gain enough power to create the Empyrean, or suffer through Savage for the end weapon. Why shouldn't I be offered more options, then ?

Because the Relic is an expansion long grind? Which means if it's tied to specific content you have to play that specific content for the entire expansion? Meanwhile for Savage/HoH, you only need to play through that content long enough to obtain the weapon once and you're done.

To say nothing about the precedent that the Relic already has for being obtainable through multiple means. While Alpha and Empyrean weapons have only ever been attainable through their respective content.

Also, no-one's denying you the ability to request Alpha/Empyrean weapons through alternate means. If you feel you deserve to be able to attained them through alternate means, go ahead and put up a suggestion. Don't just whine about other people bothering to make a suggestion that doesn't include every single item in the game in its scope.

On that specific topic, what I defend with zeal is "Don't like it, don't do it". Suffering through Eureka because you wanted the relic doesn't put you in a noble position to attack me because I wouldn't do the same.

I never claimed to be in a noble position.

I'm here with a very clear position. Which is, I personally don't like Eureka content and I feel that the Relic weapon, which used to be available through multiple avenues of content, should once again be created with multiple avenues of content being usable to work on it, including "Eureka" content.

With, additional stuff to grind for added into "Eureka" content too.

That is it. Nothing more. I don't pretend like I'm being benevolent, or noble. My desires are fuelled by personal wishes, it's just that, I'm also aware that making things better for everyone is also easily possible while fulfilling my personal wishes.

Funny, it's almost like all the people that where perfectly fine with the relic being tied to Eureka, and Eureka not being for everyone years ago and backpedal heavily now because they claim that relic should be for all.

I can't speak for others, but an no point have I ever stated years ago being fine with the Relic being tied to Eureka.

Mainly because I only started utilizing the forums and paying attention to announcements like those at Fan Fests relatively recently.

I can only assume that years ago, no-one knew what Eureka was going to be like. Ergo, it's hard to be against it if you have literally no idea that it was just going to be a glorified zone of FATE Trains and Light farming.

Yes, and I also stated that you simply shouldn't do a content you don't like. So, connecting the dots should easily gives the conclusion that if I don't like the next relic content, I would simply don't do it and not create threads and threads about how the relic should be made more available.

And this is supposed to mean something to me?

Why should I care if you'd make a thread about something?

I'm not the forum police. I couldn't care less if you made threads about stuff.

So kind of you to only give me two (totally unbiased, of course) options. But it's neither. It's simply that having two content with the same mindset with split part of your playerbase with that same mindset. And you know you can still like Eureka even if you prefer another type of grinding content, right ? But if your goal is shared between the two, you will mostly do the content you prefer.

Then it leads back to the option regarding "Eureka" content not being as liked as you hoped.

If your goal is shared between two types of content and you prefer one of them but still like the other... You'll still do both. Since you'll likely find it monotonous to keep doing the same content for as long as a Relic grind lasts.

To say nothing about the OTHER rewards each type of content brings. Maybe you stop playing your preferred content and start doing "Eureka" because you have obtained all the non-Relic rewards from your preferred content, but still have all of "Eureka's" unique rewards left to get that you'll work on alongside your Relic grind.

Since it seems like all you associate "Eureka" with is the Relic. Never mind the set of armour you can upgrade, all the mounts, minions, hairstyles and furniture that the place contains.

"only...if"...well, if you say so, it must be true, I guess. Or simply because "heavy grinding" being a niche activity, it already covers only a small part of the playerbase, and splitting them would only make each content having, at best, half the population it has now, on top of having to balance the two options so that none of them is heavily unfair.

Or maybe, if both pieces of content are equally well designed and thus liked, that both can exist even with "Heavy Grind" players being split between them?

Or maybe you know... Other rewards are a draw to get people to play both pieces of content - Independent of the Relic.

It would be different because even some Eureka grinders would switch to the fast food, generic appeal of duties, since it requires no organisation, no communication and no progression at all.

So basically, some Eureka grinders would abandon their "Preferred" content?

Is this supposed to be an argument that Eureka is well designed and well liked when you're stating that even people who like the content will ditch it if possible?

You would have less people period. Not just leechers.

You got proof of those claims? Especially if there was more "Eureka" specific content like I'm suggesting there be.

You got any proof that these claims would even have an effect? Given that Eureka already runs on an instance based format limited to 144 people per instance, all you need is 144 people in the content and you wouldn't know the difference between it being the most popular thing in the world, or just being niche content.

Or are you just scared that the content will be dead because everyone will ditch the place like hot garbage in favour of literally anything else to do with the Relic because no-one cared about the content or any of the other rewards associated with the content?

Since this is just false, plenty of people have mentioned they liked the content, plenty of people have farmed out the minions and mounts and hairstyles etc.

Thus, the content will be populated. Especially if it's implemented after taking into consideration peoples feedback about Eureka, meaning it won't drive people away with crappy NM spawns and trashy Pagos light farms.

[shibeouya]

I can't understand the folks who claim that the relic should have different paths to allow them to completely bypass Eureka.

If we use that argument, then we need to apply it to other things.
If I don't like Savage, I should have a way to grind for the Savage weapon without setting foot into Savage.
If I don't like Extreme primals, I should have a way to grind for their weapons without setting foot into Extreme primals.
If I don't like Ultimate, same boat.
Then it would make sense to have a separate path for Eureka as well.

And frankly, I would support having multiple paths to do everything. But the chances of that happening are close to zero, so why would people like Eureka to be the only content to have an alternate path?

I think it's just entitlement. A very vocal minority dislikes Eureka and feels entitled to the weapon without having to put in the effort for it.
I don't do Savage, yet I'm not asking to have a way to get these weapons. They are tied to Savage and it makes sense like that. Just as it does for Eureka.

I often see the argument that Eureka would be deserted if relic wasn't tied to it.
To that I would say, what do you think would happen if you took out all the rewards from Ultimate and just rewarded a title. Would many people bother with it? Same for savage to an extent.
We need rewards in any content to incentivize people to play. It's worked like that since this game was alive.