Please no more Eureka!

[Maero]

Eureka is basically is fate grinding and light farming with some added elements.
And i never asked to be catered to i stated that we should options for both and not tie it strictly to Eureka, having different options would be nice.
Relic which is/should be something more personal (like it has always been up until now) just does not feel that way anymore.

[LaylaTsarra]

Eureka is basically is fate grinding and light farming with some added elements.
And i never asked to be catered to i stated that we should options for both and not tie it strictly to Eureka, having different options would be nice.
Relic which is/should be something more personal (like it has always been up until now) just does not feel that way anymore.

I seriously doubt there will be more than one path to relic be it Eureka or another method. The content needs to be focused for participation. That's not to say there can't be a mix of instanced open world experiences along with dungeons etc. I suspect we'll find out soon enough what they have in mind.

I've made my views pretty clear I think that I'm happy they gave us something new and not simply a rehash of the same old tired content we've run innumerable times.

[Kalise]

I seriously doubt there will be more than one path to relic be it Eureka or another method. The content needs to be focused for participation. That's not to say there can't be a mix of instanced open world experiences along with dungeons etc. I suspect we'll find out soon enough what they have in mind.

I don't think it's a particularly huge stretch in order to allow for multiple paths to a relic.

So long as they, you know, actually flesh out content properly.

Given that a vast majority of the 2.0 and 3.0 Relic grinds were "Just buy a bunch of X with Tomestones", there's no reason they couldn't make the new Relics still be focused heavily around "Just buy a bunch of X with Tomestones". Thus allowing people to now spam Dungeons, Trials, Roulettes, Raids, Eureka etc. In order to grind tomestones to purchase X with to advance the Relic.

Heck, you could even do some cool things such as when it comes to getting the stat distribution on the weapon, having the ability to use 'Eureka' or 'HoH' content items to put the stats on, while also adding on content specific stats such as the Eureka relics Elemental Bonus. Like, it's still the same weapon. Just, depending on how you decided to grind for it, it gains stats that are relevant for said content.

Again, the only issue they'd have to overcome, is the need to create an end-reward for "Eureka" content that would entice players to actually participate in said content, to go through the level grinds required to progress through the zones and to give meaning to the FATE Trains that makes up much of the experience.

Basically, some sort of grind reward that is less intensive than the Relic but still pulls players that enjoy Eureka to the content even if they don't care to grind for the Relic also.

[Brynne]

Given that a vast majority of the 2.0 and 3.0 Relic grinds were "Just buy a bunch of X with Tomestones", there's no reason they couldn't make the new Relics still be focused heavily around "Just buy a bunch of X with Tomestones". Thus allowing people to now spam Dungeons, Trials, Roulettes, Raids, Eureka etc. In order to grind tomestones to purchase X with to advance the Relic.

I think this would be a particularly bland way to combine the content. I'd be more in favor of having a storyline for the relic wherein the items to upgrade are found within Eureka-like content but can also be purchased with tomestones if people prefer that path (and also beast tribe coins, etc). This could be done with something along the lines of "seeking a rare item, found within a mysterious land. (insert description of item and/or its lore) It's possible that others may have come across this and would be willing to trade it... for the right price of course." So the player has the option to farm the item(s) needed within Eureka-like content or grind tomestones. The story of the relic could remain intact and the different paths would be available.

For light farming, it could be about harnessing the power of the relic and/or its surrounding content. So you'd have the option of either equipping the weapon and grinding light in old content (dungeons, etc) or grinding in the new Eureka-like content.

I just really think that the relic questline could easily cater to both crowds while maintaining a consistent structure and lore.

[LaylaTsarra]

I don't think it's a particularly huge stretch in order to allow for multiple paths to a relic.

There won't be two separate paths. There might be a combination of different options, new and old, but separate and equal I highly doubt it.

[Kalise]

I think this would be a particularly bland way to combine the content.

It would be consistent with previous Relics though.

Where the lore was always "We need this really rare item" then it happens that Rowena, the person that has everything for sale, has the item and is willing to sell it.

It also makes things fair. If you had to purchase with Tomestones, every item, then you'd be limited to your weekly cap irregardless of which type of content you do. Which means everyone is gated the same way and as such, won't feel "Pressured" into doing the "Most efficient" content.

Which is one of the main issues with more freedom of content, is that people don't like feeling pressured into grinding the most efficient stuff, which is why there are so many complaints about 2.0/3.0 light farms because people "Spammed Trials/Tam-Tara" as it was the most efficient way of farming the light in a short amount of time.

I just really think that the relic questline could easily cater to both crowds while maintaining a consistent structure and lore.

Again, tomestone purchases are consistent. Rowena has items, you purchase items, you give items to Gerolt (Who's in debt with Rowena), Gerolt makes you a fancy weapon (To pay off his debt).

This has been consistent since HW (In ARR he wasn't in debt with Rowena, at least not heavily enough to be coerced into working on your weapon. He just wanted to make his kettles to pay her back)

There won't be two separate paths. There might be a combination of different options, new and old, but separate and equal I highly doubt it.

Note that most of my suggestion actually had a single path. One in which you buy items with Tomestones.

How you earn those Tomestones are up to you.

As far as my side comment about the stats, well, it's no different to how ARR required you to gather up a bunch of Materia to put in. How you got those materia and which materia you used was up to you. Similar thing for Crystal Sands in HW where you had a plethora of items that could be traded in for the sand, from Scrips, to Leve loot, to raid items or stuff bought with poetics or even GC seals.

As such, it's not unprecedented for multiple ways to progress a single step. It's only this Eureka relic that has a singular path. Where the ONLY way to progress it is by farming Fates or Farming Light/Logos in the relevant zones.

So, something simple, like the items you use to put the stats on can also include content specific stats such as Elemental Bonus in Eureka or extra Equipment levels in HoH is not out of the question. As it would simply be a similar thing to how ARR's materia step worked, where you just need to apply a certain amount of X, Y or Z where X is found in Dungeons/Trials/Raids, Y is found in Eureka and Z is found in HoH and where Y grants additional Elemental Bonus in Eureka and Z grants an additional bonus in HoH.

Again, it's not hard to think of things like this, because, as it happens, both relics before SB literally worked this way, wherein you COULD progress a majority of their steps in different ways.

People like to complain about being "Shoehorned into farming old content" from ARR/HW relics but as it happened, specified duties actually made up a minority of their grinds. The majority of their grind was about gathering Tomestones and trading them to Rowena.

Even some of the non-specified duties could be bypassed by just instead spending Tomestones (Such as HW's Singing Clusters or ARR's Alexandrite which either required a daily level 50/60 Roulette or purchase via Tomestones)

How you got these tomestones, the game didn't care. Where you went to farm your Light, the game didn't care.

The fact that an argument against allowing progression on the Relic from outside of "Eureka" content is "They won't do multiple paths to the same item" just boggles the mind when literally, before Eureka, that was exactly the case, outside of like 2-3 steps of each Relic.

[Reynhart]

The fact that an argument against allowing progression on the Relic from outside of "Eureka" content is "They won't do multiple paths to the same item" just boggles the mind when literally, before Eureka, that was exactly the case, outside of like 2-3 steps of each Relic.

Have you considered that's because they specifically stopped doing that that they won't do it again ? And you can embellish it as much as you want, but farming tomestones is not "multiple paths", it's just tome farming, the things you do for almost every valuable piece of gear since the very beginning of ARR.

[Brynne]

It would be consistent with previous Relics though.

Sure, but that doesn't mean it needs to happen.

A lot of the folks who like Eureka and dislike the previous relic progression methods have expressed discontent with grinding tomestones for relic upgrades. I remember reading that and thinking that grinding crystals or light wasn't really so different from tomestones... just a separate currency, really. I still think this is true. But it changes the feel of how the relic is progressed for them, and so I think that this tiny adjustment could do a lot to address those concerns. The items could be obtained with various currencies: crystals, tomestones, beast tribe currency, aetherpool grips, centurio seals, etc. Everyone can choose their preferred method of grinding. And while you could just make it all one currency that is rewarded from every form of grinding, it has been shown to have an impact on how people feel about the progression. That was what I wanted to get across.

It also makes things fair. If you had to purchase with Tomestones, every item, then you'd be limited to your weekly cap irregardless of which type of content you do. Which means everyone is gated the same way and as such, won't feel "Pressured" into doing the "Most efficient" content.

I dislike the weekly gating in the first place, so this is not a compelling argument to me. I see the necessity for it when it comes to content longevity, but in terms of relic progression steps, I'm not in favor. If someone wants to finish their weekly cap and then continue grinding for progress on their relic, they should be able to. People are going to feel "pressured" into "most efficient" paths regardless of how you structure this relic questline, unless ALL of the steps are tomestone-related (usually there is at least one stage that involves light grinding).

I actually assumed relic progression would be tied to the tomestones that DON'T have a weekly cap. The casual playerbase uses those tomestones for gear upgrades, since they're not getting the Savage pieces of equivalent ilvl. I'm not sure if this is how the ARR and HW relics did it, since I did not do them while they were relevant. I just assumed it'd be poetics, or the upper level uncapped tomes. I'd rather see another Eureka-like grind than using capped tomes for relic progression, honestly.

So, something simple, like the items you use to put the stats on can also include content specific stats such as Elemental Bonus in Eureka or extra Equipment levels in HoH is not out of the question. As it would simply be a similar thing to how ARR's materia step worked, where you just need to apply a certain amount of X, Y or Z where X is found in Dungeons/Trials/Raids, Y is found in Eureka and Z is found in HoH and where Y grants additional Elemental Bonus in Eureka and Z grants an additional bonus in HoH.

I think this is a great idea.

[Kalise]

Have you considered that's because they specifically stopped doing that that they won't do it again ?

Have you considered that's because they specifically wanted to push this content that has failed on both of their previous attempts?

Just because they stopped doing it doesn't necessarily mean that they will never do it again. Just as much as it can mean they will never do it again.

There exists a precedent were they allowed multiple ways to progress a Relic. Claiming outright that it will never happen again, without any proof such as a definite statement by the Developers is asinine.

And you can embellish it as much as you want, but farming tomestones is not "multiple paths", it's just tome farming, the things you do for almost every valuable piece of gear since the very beginning of ARR.

Yeah, and it's "multiple paths" because you can farm tomes from multiple sources.

You're not stuck doing one single type of content. You can mix things up, or stick to a preferred type of content.

I also mentioned that it was a single path if you actually bothered to read my post. A single path that can be worked on in numerous ways. Including, but not exclusively, Eureka (Or Eureka-like content).

But alas, despite all your claims, Eureka is only worth it because the Relic is exclusive to it... At least, that is what is being suggested by the vehement that you try and defend Relic being a Eureka exclusive and try and find reasons why previous Relic design choices (I.e. Multiple ways to work towards the same goal, be it grinding Tomestones, Crystal Sands or even the Crafted Items in HW's relic that can be obtained via Grand Company Seals these days) cannot function.

Sure, but that doesn't mean it needs to happen.

Sure.

It's just low effort on the part of the developers. Given that Tomestones are consistently obtained through various means in end-game content. Even Eureka gives you plenty of Tomestones for participating in FATEs.

They could make the item(s) you farm different, potentially even having a system similar to HW's Crystal Sands where unique items from many sources get traded for the same item to upgrade the relic.

It's just easier to make it the currency that already exists in spades and is naturally put into the content that people would be farming.

I dislike the weekly gating in the first place, so this is not a compelling argument to me.

Sure, I get that.

It's merely a point that can be used to counter one of the arguments that gets brought up with talk of "Multiple ways to progress the Relic" wherein people think it's going to mean stuff like farming Tam-Tara for hours to gain Light because that's the most efficient for them so that's what they feel pressured to do.

You can gate people by time so they all progress at the same rate. At least, initially, you can always later in the expansion then change the Tomestones required for earlier steps to the uncapped variant.

The other aspect of this, is that it also means you can make the Relic weapon more relevant as an actual weapon throughout an expansion, rather than only being notable when complete after all of the content has already been out for a while. Due to spending an actually relevant resource to upgrade it.

Of course, you can always do the half measure such as having the Relic tomestones being a different set of capped ones than those used by casuals to purchase their gear upgrades. So you have a Genesis cap and then a unique set of tomestones for relic with their own cap (That makes sense).

Again, this time-gating only serves a purpose if trying to prevent people from feeling like they "Have" to grind content they dislike to keep up with other people working on the Relic.

[Brynne]

Again, this time-gating only serves a purpose if trying to prevent people from feeling like they "Have" to grind content they dislike to keep up with other people working on the Relic.

You'd need to gate every step, including light grinds, in order to eliminate this problem. As long as there are multiple ways to progress, there will be a "most efficient" way to do it that people will find as soon as they can.

They could gate everything, but I'd rather they didn't. Gear progression is already gated by time. I'm fine with the relic being gated only by when each new progression step is released. It gives the players with more time to spend in the game something to work at when they've hit the other time gates.